Fishing under attack by animal libbers

[John L]

Found this on a shooting site. Many shooters are fishers too. >:(



http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2009/08/06/90985_opinion.html (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2009/08/06/90985_opinion.html)

JENNY MOXHAM: Stop the pain game
August 6th, 2009

I'M sure most Australians would agree that killing whales is barbaric, and
many go whale watching simply for the thrill of catching a glimpse of one
these giants of the deep.
Anglesea surfer Kaine Hazle was ecstatic last Thursday after having had a
close and personal encounter with a whale at Winkipop and even our
government demonstrates good will towards these sea creatures by enforcing
laws that forbid boats, aircraft and people from disturbing them.
But what about those other creatures of the deep _ fish? Why are there no
similar feelings of good-will towards them?
After all, they too are intelligent, good-natured, curious and sensitive
creatures.
Dr Culum Brown, a specialist in fish behavior from Macquarie University
in NSW says: ``Fish are more intelligent than they appear. In many areas,
such as memory, their cognitive powers match or exceed those of higher
vertebrates including non-human primates.''
Perhaps a more pertinent fact is that they feel pain.
Cambridge University scientist Donald Broom says`` ``The scientific
literature is quite clear. Anatomically, physiologically and
biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds
and mammals.''
Clearly, if fish can feel pain, angling can no longer be regarded as a
non-cruel sport.
One might expect that, armed with this knowledge, our government might
show a tad more consideration for fish but, the reverse is true.
The Brumby Government is, in fact, spending $3.2 million of tax-payers'
money on promoting angling as a ``fun and healthy outdoor activity for the
entire family''.
To this end, regular Free Family Fishing events are staged where children
as young as four are lured into attending workshops. To encourage the
little ones, there are free give-aways, prizes and rods provided.
To make sure that as many children as possible experience the ``fun'' of
impaling and suffocating a fish, many hundreds of large, farm raised fish
are deposited at the venue on the day.
The farms from which these fish come are much like the factory farms in
which broiler chickens, battery hens and pigs are reared. Fish are
tightly confined in filthy enclosures, and many suffer from parasitic
infections, diseases, and debilitating injuries.
They spend their lives constantly bumping against each other and the
sides of their cage thus, when they are finally taken from these farms
and released into a lake it must feel like heaven.
Much the same as when a battery hen is rescued and allowed to walk around
for the first time in her life.
How heartless, then, to deliberately deposit these abused and vulnerable
creatures in a place where a fishing event is to be held. How cruel to
give them their first taste of freedom at a location where they will be
cunningly tricked into swallowing a barbed hook then dragged, suffocating,
from the water.
Imagine the agony you would experience, swinging from a metal hook that
was deeply imbedded in the roof of your mouth. Well, it's exactly the
same for them.
Professor Bill Runciman of Adelaide University, says fishing constitutes
the greatest source of confused thinking and inconsistency on earth with
respect to pain.
People, he says, get very excited about dolphins but at the same time
there are fishing competitions at which thousands of people snare fish
with hooks and allow them to asphyxiate.
Surely it's time we acknowledged the fact that all the creatures of the
deep are equally worthy of our compassion and consideration.
Jenny Moxham is an animal activist.

[Is Don Is GOOD]

Why not i say, lets save all the cattle and the sheep and the pigs and the chickens and everything else and live off fresh air and images of beautiful little creatures frollicking and care free!! Get real you green bastards, Its been goin on since the beginning of time! These are the sort of people that were deprived of basic human instinct not being taken fishing when they were kids and now just want to wreck it for people like us.

BLOODY W##KERS...

Don

[Pretzil]

If those fish werent going to be caught where they are released they wouldnt be released at all, thats why they were bred in the first place.

[Lovey80]

Jenny moxham should have been smothered at birth!!!!!!

What a waste of oxygen it is having her on this planet!

Cheers

Chris

[PinHead]

a bit about Jenny Moxham:

http://www.vegetarianaction.org.au/Articles/06Church.htm

just another one trying to shove their ideas down everyone elses throat.

ironic thing is: she says she is a christian...didn't the big fella feed the masses on loaves and fishes if my memory serves me correctly.

weren't some of his disciples fishermen?

bugger...the bloke she looks up to had no problem with fish or fishermen.

[TimiBoy]

I love the way these folks portray Nature as a system where animals are frolicking about having a wonderful time, where Man is an alien, and not part of the system.

The reality is far different. It is a place of quick, violent death, where the mantra is kill or be killed. You breed almost instantly, because if you don't you will likely be ripped to bits before you pass on your genes. It is the ULTIMATE competition, where if you do not do everything better than the other side, you get wiped out.

An then, as if Nature wasn't cruel enough, "she" chucks in meteors, landslides, cyclones, floods, volcanoes, climate changes of various sorts, and so on, and on, and on...

Fools like this chick would have us patting our animal friends on the head as we walk by chewing on a tofu dog, all the while they are trying to figure a way of evolving to a point where they can eat us. Meanwhile we have to mow down half the forests to grow enough bloody tofu for everyone, and mow down the other half to grow bio diesel to fuel the trucks that bring it to the shop for her.

Vegetarianism is fine, I have no problem with it. But keep it to yourself please.

Tim

[finga]

a bit about Jenny Moxham:

http://www.vegetarianaction.org.au/Articles/06Church.htm

just another one trying to shove their ideas down everyone elses throat.

ironic thing is: she says she is a christian...didn't the big fella feed the masses on loaves and fishes if my memory serves me correctly.

weren't some of his disciples fishermen?

bugger...the bloke she looks up to had no problem with fish or fishermen.
So did you send her an email asking THE question about Him??
Ask her about all the animals in the manger as well while your at it. They weren't there for the scenery I fear

[bennykenny]

Fools like this chick would have us patting our animal friends on the head as we walk by chewing on a tofu dog, Tim
Tim, i think she would even against the use of DOG in the tofu dog you refer to, might sound like your eating a dog stuffed with tofu, then again it maybe the only way to make tofu taste good. cheers

[robersl]

I thought it was all part of the food chain little fish eat plants plankton bigger fish eats small fish larger fish eats bigger fish and with any luck we eat the larger fish next we won't be able to harvest plants as they might be hurt and have feelings

shane

[DR]

If God did not intend us to eat fish & animals...why did he make them taste so good????

Has anyone heard of a comp that "many hundreds of large, farm raised fish
are deposited at the venue on the day".??
or is it just I don't take much notice of what happens at comps...

[finga]

I thought it was all part of the food chain little fish eat plants plankton bigger fish eats small fish larger fish eats bigger fish and with any luck we eat the larger fish next we won't be able to harvest plants as they might be hurt and have feelings

shane
They do have feelings too you know!!!
No wonder karma gets me after I get the whipper snipper and mower out
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060906213525AAZt1Kv

[Sumfish9]

I can just imagine the "letters to the editor" in the next Advertiser.......with so many beautiful fishing spots around the Bellarine, comments like hers are designed to cause a stir, something she would be well aware of. Anyway, she's had her say, her 3 mins and hopefully she is never heard from again.
I wonder if she takes Omega3 tablets????:-/

[1lastcast]

Chuck her in a tank with a starving tiger shark and see how cute she thinks the bloody thing is then !!!

[Little grey men]

I wanna live on her planet, it sounds wonderful.
Jesus himself was a carpenter who worked with real wood, I wonder how she feels about that as well as him hanging out with a bunch of fisho's. I'm sure when she finally meets her maker he'll give her a clip behind the ear for being a total goose.

[cptpott]

Jenny moxham should have been smothered at birth!!!!!!

What a waste of oxygen it is having her on this planet!

Cheers

Chris

Possibly a fairly unhelpful comment there Chris, plays into her hands; don't you think.
However Jenny herself would do well to look up the word 'Anthropomorphic" and reconsider the language used in her article.

Cheers

Craig

[thephotoguru]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I do not agree with her's at all, it is however interesting to note this type of hype is given much more "air play" than the outdoors, fishing and hunting arenas ideas.

Why is it so, what is it they can do that we can't?

Do we not pull together for the common good of our way of life as well as the other side.

I know that I am not out there campaigning, writing letters to my local member and I suggest that there are many more like me. I have enough to contend with in everyday life, and when I get a spare moment I want to enjoy a day out on the water to enjoy my chosen activities.

Here in lies the problem, united action is needed, having 2 cents worth of ranting on Ausfish is not going to help 1 little bit, either is suggesting that someone is not worth the oxygen they breathe.

We need action and waiting for the other guy to do something will be too late.

I will be looking at myself and assessing what I have the capacity to contribute what about you?

Eamon

[TimiBoy]

I will be looking at myself and assessing what I have the capacity to contribute what about you?

Eamon

Eamon,

Have you joined EcoFishersQld? Damn fine place to start!

Not just because that will be doing something, but also because if you decide to do more, you can do it in a coordinated and targeted fashion!

Cheers,

Tim

[Lovey80]

Yep probably a little counter productive my comments but anyone worth thier salt would realise that she truely is an oxygen thief and isn't worth the print in quoting her. The journo that published it needs to give himself an uppercut too.

Cheers

Chris

[shayned]

An associated link.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1895106.htm

[finga]

There's an old saying. It takes all types to make this world.
And there's another...There's two sides to every story.

To the 'how fish can be caught and still be sustainable' story this lady is at one end of the spectrum of ideology and the people who keep all they catch...and them some, are at the other end of the spectrum of ideology.
It's a shame that some people (including policy makers) might read this ladies writings about her side of the story and believe her ideology and take no notice of any one else in the spectrum of stories. Except for the other extreme side of the story and tar everyone in the middle with that extremist bush.
Thankfully nobody (or nearly nobody) with normal beliefs believe the story from the other end of the spectrum (the keep all ya catch...and them some end) and we all think they're just plain nutters.

So how do the people who's story (or ideology) is in the middle of the spectrum get their side of the story across, and be noticed?? ie in the papers, journals etc.
More importantly, how do the policy makers who only believe the side of the story from this extremist lady take note of the real story...and forget about the two extremes??

Make sense?? I'm not real sure it does and I wrote it :(

[TimiBoy]

There's an old saying. It takes all types to make this world.
And there's another...There's two sides to every story.

Make sense?? I'm not real sure it does and I wrote it :(

Actually Scott you are exactly correct, except that there are more than two sides. Look at the issue like a line. At one end, the argument is "eat nothing except air, water, anything that does not live." At the other, the argument is "eat what can be eaten, and care not for the method of extraction."

To the person who believes the first, everyone is awful. How could you eat that plant, it has feelings. So our Vegetarian friend is a monster to them. The one at the extreme Right who says "I don't care about the Law, I'll fish where I want, using whatever method I want, and keep what I catch" thinks nothing of a grenade over the side, and will probably fight to retain what he sees as his right to rape the resource as he sees fit.

We all sit somewhere on that line. Some towards the first (I call it the Left) position, some towards the (ipso-facto) Right.

We all tend to think our position is the best one, but to anyone at a different position on that "slide" we are either sissies or monsters.

I have formulated this view from a discussion with a Whale Biologist I met on a trip in Hervey Bay. His position is that while Whales are scarce, they should not be hunted. But once they have increased and are a safe population, limited hunting should be reconsidered. They are a valuable resource. I was up in arms! Disagree completely!!! He asked me why? "They are beautiful" So are cows. "They are majestic" So are trees. "They are intelligent" So are pigs. He showed me that once whale populations have been rebuilt, the only objection to hunting them will be emotional, and the further to the left you sit, the more emotional your argument becomes...

Tim

[deepfried]

I have formulated this view from a discussion with a Whale Biologist I met on a trip in Hervey Bay. His position is that while Whales are scarce, they should not be hunted. But once they have increased and are a safe population, limited hunting should be reconsidered. They are a valuable resource.

I agree that they should be hunted at some point in the future when populations have improved. I cant see it happening though by australian pro fishermen. The basis of this is that when we remove resources from the ocean it should be broad and not specific so as not to collapse a link in the food chain. IE take a bit from each level of the food chain not just as an example the Tuna or squid. In theory it should result in a more balanced eco system. A bit off thread but hey just a thought.

[castlemaine]

[quote=DR;1055873]If God did not intend us to eat fish & animals...why did he make them taste so good????
quote]


.... and give us Canine teeth;) 8-)

[PaulMark]

Hunt the whales?? Why?? We don't need to, they're mammals so if you want red meat "Have a cow,bro" thats all they are here for beef and milk. If we didn't eat them they wouldn't exist,nor sheep ,pigs,chickens the list goes on.Thats the trouble with the vego's they think these animals would just live along side us happily,merrily eating what, grass? whose?? They're domesticated animals bred and tended to by humans for?? consumption! Thank you and goodnight.
Paulo.8-)

[TimiBoy]

Hunt the whales?? Why?? We don't need to, they're mammals so if you want red meat "Have a cow,bro" thats all they are here for beef and milk. If we didn't eat them they wouldn't exist,nor sheep ,pigs,chickens the list goes on.Thats the trouble with the vego's they think these animals would just live along side us happily,merrily eating what, grass? whose?? They're domesticated animals bred and tended to by humans for?? consumption! Thank you and goodnight.
Paulo.8-)

Couldn't agree more. From a financial perspective in this Country it's pointless. But as an export commodity, say to Japan? If the population will support it, and the money stacks up, why not, from a logical and emotionless perspective? That's the query. Again, keep the emotion out, what is the logical argument not to hunt them?

Cheers,

Tim

[PaulMark]

Quite simple really,you'll stuff Hervey Bays economy,you hunt whales in a boat.No more whale watching, so I'll agree to disagree,They're clever animals and if a boat hurts them they won't come near a boat. Anyhoo theres too many humans how bout we start hunting them. Just because theres a lot of them, doesn't make them fair game.In my book theres things we don't need to..lets get it right ..kill,whales and elephants are top of the list. Do we need a quid that badly.Now crocodiles thats a different ball game.
Paulo.8-)

[TimiBoy]

Quite simple really,you'll stuff Hervey Bays economy,you hunt whales in a boat.No more whale watching, so I'll agree to disagree,They're clever animals and if a boat hurts them they won't come near a boat. Anyhoo theres too many humans how bout we start hunting them. Just because theres a lot of them, doesn't make them fair game.In my book theres things we don't need to..lets get it right ..kill,whales and elephants are top of the list. Do we need a quid that badly.Now crocodiles thats a different ball game.
Paulo.8-)

I agree - all I'm demonstrating is that depending on where you sit on the "slide", one man's reason is another man's folly! I would never condone hunting them in Hervey Bay. I would probably never condone it anywhere.

Cheers,

tim

[finga]

So what's the difference between a whale and a crocodile....or a chook or a cow or a pig or a mackerel??
Marking something as been more worthwhile to live just because they give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside is not a reason that it has more of a right to live over a chook.

[deepfried]

Hunt the whales?? Why?? We don't need to

We might not need it for a food source in aust but in japan and some other countries it is sought after. atm tuna are being fished to collapse while the whale population is rebounding. The basis of what some in marine biology are saying is that by harvesting whales ( and other lightly fished species ) it will take some of the pressure of other over fished food sources like tuna. Its not about having a farmed option like beef, its about balance within oceans entire eco system. Not a nice thing to think about and there is no way i could eat it but people in other nations do. I am not trying to convince anyone of this just trying to explain my first post a bit more.

[PinHead]

what about if and when there are too many whales for hervey bay and none arrive? No food there for the vast numbers. A cull perhaps..same as we do for roos?

[oldboot]

ah yes as mentioned above.. and I quote Mike Warnkie......."If god don't want me to eat meat, how come he put the wrong teeth in my head".

Specificaly for " Christian ideological vegetarians"........there is a passage cant remember chapter and verse (sorry I was never a keen bible scollar)... where god give a vision to the opostle Paul, where he let a mat down that had all sorts of creatures both clean and unclean.......and he was told to kill and eat...........while this is a parable to paul that he should also preach to the non jews........it plainly shows that meat eating is acceptable for both jews and christians.


the bottom line is that iff you are in a situation where the "vego environmentalists" are preaching their stuff......the most effective argument is to point out that their agenda is to stop all meat eating..........that wil turn off most who are listening.

lets face it these people have the luxury of being vegitarian in a wealthy culture.....a choice that many would not have.
If the world were to go vegitarian think how much intensive agriculture would be required......considering that humans are very inificient at converting starch to protien.

this is nothing more than "pussy / puppy thinking".

cheers

[BigE]

funny how C&R is being used to bash fisho's as cruel and inhumane .......... Bet there a few sensitive new age types regretting that warm and fuzzy feeling they thought they were having as they slipped there fish back into the briny in the name of conservation only to be branded cruel and barbaric ....... as a wise man once councelled me "as soon as you lie to yourself about what your doing you have lost your way" when you go fishing your hunting pure and simple , if you let them go your only loading the greenies guns for them and greenies don't C&R they will go for the kill.

BigE