Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

[Adamy]

Given the controversy regarding the position of the Chair of the local branch (Brisbane South) and after some very careful consideration, I am thinking of closing the branch and declaring all positions vacant (well they wouldnt be vacant - they would be closed - uncontestable until the Party AGM).

In order to explain why this may be necessary I should provide you with some background and also some further insight regarding the Party’s constitution. I apologise if I am airing dirty laundry here, but given the circumstances I cant see any other options. Additionally I apologise for the length of this explanation.

When Shane resigned back before Christmas a special meeting was called by the executive in order to resolve the vacancy. I was called and asked to nominate, at first I said no then a very well known identity within the industry called me; one who I have known and respected most of my adult life and he asked me to consider the local Chair so in respect for this individual I agreed. I did not seek the position nor did I want it, I tried to do a ring-around to find another viable candidate. I agreed to take the position on the proviso that as soon as a viable candidate was found I would step aside.

At this stage it was assumed by the executive that Shane had no further interest in the party and would not even bother to attend the meeting. Imagine my/our surprise when Shane turned up, I was confused to say the least. Without divulging all the details of the meeting, it will suffice me to say that to me it seemed that Shane didn’t really want to let go of the Chair and I supposed in my mind that due to the numbers of members he bought with him that he would renominate and claim the position. Again imagine my surprise when the vote came up that he didn’t want to nominate (if he did – he had more than enough numbers there to claim the seat) and so I reluctantly stepped forward as I said I would and reiterated to the whole group that I would stand aside as soon as a viable (and willing) candidate became available. I was nominated and seconded uncontested.

After the chair nomination came the vacancy of the vice chair, which was left by the resignation of Mitch. No one would nominate for this position – or for the position of secretary – so with the resignation of other committee members, I was left holding the bag so to speak. So with those vacancies being unable to be filled on the night, my first act of the chair was to hold over any further nominations until the next meeting, which is yet to be called, I also informed the group that was gathered that if we were not able to fill the vacancies that I would then close the branch.

So that brings us to this point where I am the Chair of the local Branch - now on with some constitutional matters.

The constitution states that the purpose of the branches is to support the goals of TFPQ (which are available as the mission statement on the website). So as far as the local branches are concerned they are subject to the main organisation – they do not have goals independent of the main party.

Spokes person: section 8.1 of the party constitution states: “The (party) Chairman is the only person authorised spokesperson for the TFPQ including its sub-branches and any committees”.

So there it is in black and white (although the grammar isn’t very good) there is only 1 spokesperson for TFPQ and at present that’s Kevin Collins; Party Chairman. Further in section 14.1 it states: “Any member who disagrees with a policy or decision of the party shall remain wholly free to express and advocate their own views, except on occasions when they are communicating in a public capacity (such as Ausfish?) as a representative of the Party, in which event they may express their own views, but make it clear that they do not reflect those of the general membership of the Party”.

I have tried at all times to make it extremely clear, I have totally gone out of my way to make it clear to all and sundry that I do not make representations on behalf of the Party – EVER!!! However some people wont let this lie, they insist that all my representations reflect the party – which I insist they don’t as outlined within the constitution which I try at my utmost to abide by.

Lets analyse this for a moment: How many branches does the liberal party have in QLD?? How many branches does the Labor party have in QLD? I bet that no one here can give me a definitive and accurate answer (I know only the answer for one of them) let me tell you – it’s more than 1.

AND YET… who here knows who the local chairman of their local branch (who usually only meet with about 6-8 members) is? Have you ever heard of one of them representing their party or being a spokesperson for the party? NO!! Why? Because they too have a single spokesperson policy all branches and sub branches are subordinate to the State Branch – who then appoints the spokesperson – they only ever have 1 spokesperson at a time – well two actually 1 for the parliamentary party and another for to speak for the state executive.

The spokesperson for the State executive NEVER speaks for the parliamentary party and vice versa – they are almost two separate identities. When a Parliamentary member attends a local branch meeting – he/she is there as a member only, not the incumbent representative – he has no standing at that meeting.

Local branch Chairs are there as an internal position, they represent their members to the State executive and supply candidates, help suggest policy formation and generally help the party achieve the goals of the organisation. Local chairs in both Labor and Liberal are internal positions – same as TFPQ – they NEVER EVER speak for the party and NONE of their comments can be or are misconstrued as representing the party.

You wouldn’t expect from any other party what you have expected from my position. If you are not a member of my branch – then to you I am insignificant – NOTHING I say can possibly represent the Party – only the nominated chair of the State executive can do that. TFPQ has been modelled after the major parties and so we should justifiably expected to be treated like the major parties– we have a system in place and no one can go outside that system unless they want to leave the party. However IF you are a local Branch member I can help you and assist you and represent your interests to the STATE executive. I cant represent your interests outside that circle, it’s in the constitution, its registered with the ECQ –as far as I understand it – its LAW!

So back to closing the branch… With the controversy surrounding this issue I can (as section 11.1 dictates) no longer be “effective or capable of supporting the goals of TFPQ”. The constitution declares that if the branch can no longer do this, then that branch can be wound up.

So I find the branch at a cross roads – either people here let me try and achieve those goals and let me abide by the constitution (as you would any other branch of any other political party) – or I close the branch. This poll is an opportunity for you to have your say. The outcome of the poll will not determine my course of action, which will be decided between the State executive and myself.

If we decide to wind up the branch, then a meeting will be called and according to the constitution, the branch can either be wound up without further recourse or we can hold a vote and if there is 80% vote of attending members in favour of winding up the branch – then Brisbane south will be no more. (that decision will be made by the executive).


Make no mistake; this is not a power play or a threat as I never wanted the position in the first place. If the branch is wound up, it will not affect the work I do behind the scenes for the party but will leave me free to help and be more effective due to the fact that the people on this board who have made this position most difficult will be left with nothing to say. It will however have a significant impact on the election hopes of the Party and helping to identify local issues and find local candidates who may be worthy to represent the party at the ballot box. I am very sorry that a few bad apples may spoil the batch for every one.

So have your say… give me a spray – it may be your last opportunity.

Adam

Adam

[PinHead]

Personally..I would not have bothered typing all that..I would have just resigned. Too much to do in life to bother being a target for others in such petty ways.
Maybe Shane wants the position back.

[Shane Boese]

At this stage it was assumed by the executive that Shane had no further interest in the party and would not even bother to attend the meeting. Imagine my/our surprise when Shane turned up, I was confused to say the least.
Adam

Adam

I received a written invitation via email inviting me to attend the meeting by the Party Secretary.

Shane

[Shane Boese]

Personally..I would not have bothered typing all that..I would have just resigned. Too much to do in life to bother being a target for others in such petty ways.
Maybe Shane wants the position back.

Pinhead

Things are hotting up here in relation to Moreton Bay, and as I have indicated in repeated posts, I believe that I can be more effective outside the Party system than from within it. I live here in Brisbane, KC and the TFPQ executive are in NQ.

KC once referred to me as a "bombastic bastard" and in the case of Moreton Bay and Rec fishing issues, he is probably right. If being antagonist and catalyst is what is required to raise the profile of local issues and get people fired up and motivated, then so be it. I have no interest in stepping back into the confines of being the TFPQ Branch Chairman, only to find myself :-X again.

Regards, Shane

[PinHead]

Interesting reply Shane...at least the perception of what you were doing previously is no longer valid.

[DR]

personally, i don't care what you do.

You have become all defensive over comments made.

my slant on it all is, things being pointed out to you were..regardless of party policy, that it does not matter that you have a disclaimer. Some of these greens will use all or part of what you say if it suits their agenda.

if they were to say "the Chairman of TFPQ Bisbane South Branch said it was hilarious when he read a story about a dugong being killed by a boatstrike"

Now, that is in writing, it was said, i have neglected to relate the whole of what was said, & i have used it out of context, which is the sort of crap these people do.

it's a bit like the old one of...Hypothetically.. if someone was to ask ('insert high profile name here) in an interview if he was gay(not that there is anything wrong with that;D), & he said 'No, i am not gay"
the next day the news headlines could be ('insert high profile name here) DENIES HE IS GAY!!'

once again, the truth, he denied it. But, how many people are going to start to wonder why he was asked the question in the first place, & how many are just going to think he is gay just because he denied it???

it's all about twisting to suit the cause.. i think this started out with people trying to let you know it could be misinterpreted & then it all got out of hand..

don't take it to heart, just get on with the job. as you said closing will be a backward step for TFPQ in bris. sth.
You don't need members here filling out a poll, you know what you want to do...

this is not criticism, just a point of view

my 2 cents

another thought.... keep the job & sign up here under another name & you can be like the rest of us & talk all the crap you like 8-)

[Dicko]

Pinhead, pull your head in.

Who the blazes are you to go demanding someone resign from a position in a political party of which by your own admission, you are glad you are not a member of ?? (as per your post on the previous thread)

These guys are passionate about what they are trying to achieve, and will have differences of opinion.

I can fully understand Shane's previous (and current) frustration of not being able to publicly expand his opinions & ideas and not being able to satisfy the official TFPQ guidelines of the single spokesman policy.

I can also see why that policy is in place. It's a conundrum that needs addressing, but at the same time it cannot be completely opened up for all and sundry to be 'spokeperson'.

I can also see how Adam has been put in the position he is now in, though a little more maturity could have been displayed in some of his previous posts.

Pinhead, it's a friggin time consuming and very often thankless hard slog being involved in the political process. Healthy & firey discussion can be a learning & productive excercise for all. Standing back throwing rocks like you're doing isn't

If your prepared to criticise the those involved and you feel so passionate about demanding resignations then maybe it's a good time to put your own hand up ??

And yes, I've been involved in a political party in the past so can speak from experience of what these guys are about, and yes, I'm now a member (since inception) of TFPQ, though by my own choice, not 'active'.

[Adamy]

Dr Yes you're absolutely right - anyone can take any comment you make and take it out of context:


i am gay!!'

my 2 cents

;D



DR - thats just my point!! The Greens and the press and whoever the hell else doesnt care about my position - its insignificant and doesnt have a bearing on anything - now if KC said it - then it might be news. Its only the people on this forum who are making a big deal and YES I am defensive - and why shouldnt I be?

But I do get what you are saying... but from my present point of view I'm leaning towards closing - Greg is right its not worth all the trouble!! I'm being defensive and some others are being "petty". Better to close it up - then I can say whatever the hell I like... I will anyway because thats the right the constitution of the party and of the Country allows.

Shane: The invite was issued to all branch members - some of them confirmed or sent their apologies. You didnt notify anyone of your intended arrival - last communication from you was a resignation letter - why should anyone have expected your presence? Still cant understand given all the hullaballoo at the meeting why you didnt renominate.


I believe that I can be more effective outside the Party system than from within it. Does that mean that you dont want to be a member anymore?? Just stirring!! taking things out of context - just like everyone else;D;D

Adam

[DR]

Dr Yes you're absolutely right - anyone can take any comment you make and take it out of context:



;D



DR - thats just my point!! The Greens and the press and whoever the hell else doesnt care about my position - its insignificant and doesnt have a bearing on anything - now if KC said it - then it might be news. Its only the people on this forum who are making a big deal and YES I am defensive - and why shouldnt I be?

Adam

no, i think that is wrong,thats not out of context, that is probably slander ;D;Das i never said that i was gay

most of Qld/Aust probably do not know that TFPQ is a one spokesman party. so my point is, by using your comments & mentioning your position with the party it may have some impact with all those that don't really pay attention to what goes on around them..

[Adamy]

Hey Dicko... Its OK mate Pinhead is OK by me! I understand where he is coming from. I know he can speak for himself - but from my perspective he's just saying its not worth the hassle I am getting from some of the others.

AND yes I probably do need a higher level of maturity - I can take the spray when I know I've done the wrong thing. In the first instance my words were fine and the fault lie in others misconstruing my words, thereafter, I acted all defensively and that was my problem and something I'm going to try and learn from in the future. I have to learn to let stuff go - but I dont know if I can do it whilst under constant attack by those who should be supportive.

So thats why I'm still leaning towards branch closure - unless there are people who I can actually serve - who arent looking to constantly stab me in the back. Thats why Pinhead is right! I can still achieve a lot for the party without having to be the branch chair.


I dont want to start a turf war here - just looking for some honest feedback - good bad or otherwise - thanks all for comments so far!

Adam
Adam

[Adamy]

This thread is moving too fast for me... sorry for double entries

Hi DR,

most of Qld/Aust probably do not know that TFPQ is a one spokesman party. so my point is, by using your comments & mentioning your position with the party it may have some impact with all those that don't really pay attention to what goes on around them..You're right of course - problem is I have never signed any of my posts with chairman - or even mentioned that I was doing or saying a certain thing on behalf of the party - as if I was a spokesperson.

My battle is trying to get some of the people on this site to NOT regard me as the Chair and to treat me like a normal person - I'm just like everyone else - I'm nothing and nobody I claim nothing for myself, no authority, no rights no nothing!

Thats been the problem the whole time people wont just let me be me without assuming that I'm representing something that I'm not. I reckon even after I resign - people will still say - you cant say that - because you're a "former" chair. They'll use the same dull arguments they are using now.

Adam

p.s. you got me with the slander thing;D:P I'll have to try again::)

[flick]

..... who is gay......... (Not that there is anything wrong with that). It's just good to know prior to m&g's.

[tunaman]

Iam gay! Does anyone want to go out for a date. Come on guys, Please! Iam Quite nice you know.::) ;D ;D ;D :P


Blokes! Give it a rest.





signed tunaman

[PinHead]

Pinhead, pull your head in.

Who the blazes are you to go demanding a perfect example of how things are taken outr of context..nowhere did i say I demand someone resign...I said.."Personally..I would not have bothered typing all that..I would have just resigned"..hardly a demand...just saying what I would do if in that position. someone resign from a position in a political party of which by your own admission, you are glad you are not a member of ?? (as per your post on the previous thread)

These guys are passionate about what they are trying to achieve, and will have differences of opinion.

I can fully understand Shane's previous (and current) frustration of not being able to publicly expand his opinions & ideas and not being able to satisfy the official TFPQ guidelines of the single spokesman policy.

I can also see why that policy is in place. It's a conundrum that needs addressing, but at the same time it cannot be completely opened up for all and sundry to be 'spokeperson'.

I can also see how Adam has been put in the position he is now in, though a little more maturity could have been displayed in some of his previous posts.

Pinhead, it's a friggin time consuming and very often thankless hard slog being involved in the political process. Healthy & firey discussion can be a learning & productive excercise for all. Standing back throwing rocks like you're doing isn't
And comments from outside are not included when it is all made public such as on here? No one criticises the Labor or Liberal or National Parties or the Greens unless they are a member..I doubt that.

If your prepared to criticise the those involved and you feel so passionate about demanding resignations then maybe it's a good time to put your own hand up ??

And yes, I've been involved in a political party in the past so can speak from experience of what these guys are about, and yes, I'm now a member (since inception) of TFPQ, though by my own choice, not 'active'. not much difference between being a non active member and not being a member...main reason I did not join originally...no time to be an active member so no point in joining.

[Jeremy]

why make a poll on this Adamy? Are you saying you can't make a decision on this yourself and want a consensus of other people, many of whom you don't know, to decide for you? And to make the closing of the branch as public issue?

Is that the sort of leader you are?

Has the SB branch done anything under your leadership? Have you made any progress?

Nothing personal there, just a few hard questions to make you think.

Jeremy

[PADDLES]

Adam, I think your organisation needs guys like yourself and Shane, who are both passionate about access and fishing, to be working behind the scenes in the engine room so to speak.

When it comes to dealing with the general public (and I don't mean people on this website, I mean people who don't give two hoots about fishing) it's probably best to let a party spokesman talk the talk.

A good suggestion was made earlier in this thread, change your name and keep chucking your 2c worth in to the ring, just don't have any identifiable link to TFPQ so your comments can not be traced back as party policy and stay as your personal opinion.

As to the poll, I didn't vote mate. :)

[Adamy]

p.s Paddles: Thanks for your comments mate - all taken on board! You didnt have to vote - the poll is just to encourage people to have their say - some may want to do it anonymously through the poll is all

[blaze]

been reading all whats been happening on the chat forum, my concern about a poll like this is that it inferes that all members of the fishing party are also ausfish members, or at the very least all that care. It a shame that all this infighting is taking place and the engery is being put into fishing. The sad fact of life is that in any organisation that is going to happen. I hope that there is a way foward as the fight you fight will afect in some way fishing right around Aust.
cheers
blaze

[Jeremy]

So is that your "official" response as a representative of the Brisbane Sports Fishing Club Jeremy? So then the club feels the same way?

I guess you didnt read the whole diatribe Jeremy because IF you did you would have noted where I said the poll would not determine outcome ONLY give people like yourself an opportunity to have their say.

Thanks for having your say!

By the way - I dont have to report my activities as Chair to you - you aren't even a member of TFPQ anymore - you quit in a big huff remember?? I think we all (who were there) recall your actions of that night!

Nothing personal here?? what a load!! You cant hide behind a pithy statement like that Jeremy - I've seen you in action!

Just my 2 cents;)

Adam



LOL;D ;D You just don't get it do you!

Jeremy

[Adamy]

Hope that helps.;D

Adam

[Tim_N]

Hey,
I've got a great idea!!!!!!
Why don't you all shut up and bugger off!
Take it somewhere else, like outside.
I don't think I'm the only one that is sick of this school yard name calling etc.
Nobody is going to win here and the biggest looser will be TFPQ,
so shut it and move one.
ENOUGH
Tim

[Jeremy]

Adam,

you want a box of tissues? Maybe a bex and a good lie down will help.


I did not resign from The Fishing Party at that meeting in December. I resigned from the executive of TPFQ SB branch. There were some heated emotions and it is possible that I made an error. I will seek clarification on this from the State executive.


I have not attacked TruBlu. I simply asked what she/he has done in response to she/he asking Shane what he had done. That does not constitute a personal attack. Some people including you do not like the truth and see these sort of questions as a personal attack.


It has been entirely YOU who has escalated this dialogue between you and I. I started it by asking a simple well directed question designed to make you think. You have replied with ill-conceived and childish diatribe.

I have had enough of the lies and mistruths you have written about me. I NEVER hide behind anyone or anything and if you wish to continue in this vein, I will request a face to face meeting so we can sort this out as men.


Jeremy

[Mattg68]

I get that I am only adding to the damage by replying to your rubbish - I TOTALLY get that!!
Adam

no, i don't think you do Adam. That line right there was your time to stop. Adam, I don't know you personally but this whole thing has been handled appallingly. It's the content of your constant jibes & blame passing that is a bit tiring. From the outside looking in I would say that the sooner you vacate the position of chair the better for TFPQ. Sometimes you just have to cop it on the chin & get on with it like any political party member would. You are in a position of constant scrutiny & I don't envy you for that, but roll with the punches & quit this 'he said, she said' crap, it sounds immature. People are going to have there voice & you can't start battles over every petty thing that is said - ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

This vote thing sounds like a way to form 'teams' & split the party - (those who agree with Adam & those that don't). Just shutup (& that goes for everyone) & get on with the job mate of chairing the party to greater things.

Matt

[Shane Boese]

Adam

You started this post implying that you were doing so in your capacity as the Chair of TFPQ Brisbane South. It would have been nice to see your responses being more carefully worded and professionally handled. It almost seems that you are trying to KILL the Brisbane South Branch so that you dont have to close it.

Despite my differences with KC, I cant help but feel sorry for what you are putting him and the party faithfull through with your public tirades.

Until such time as there is an official conclusion on behalf of TFPQ, you would be well advised to conduct yourself in a more professional manner, or else stay quiet .

Regards
Shane

[RobGoesFish]

Firstly, I am all for people who stand up for the rights of fisherman. However, I dont understand why this could not have been solved at the next party meeting instead of having an ugly fight drawn out in the public eye. Personaly Adam, I think it is a reality of politics that people will seize upon your comments and try to trurn them against you. Unfortunatley you are the chair of the branch 24/7 365 days a year and your comments do reflect the office you hold. I have read your initial post and understand what you were trying to say becuase I was thinking the the same thing about how the press were manipulating the situation. Problem is thats what the press do.

If you cannot take the personal sacrifice of being the chair of your branch 24/7 resign as you will do more harm then help. This is not the place to fight about problems within your party. I think that if you want to help, please continue to do so, but please no more of these silly fights in public places.

And to your comments about how so and so is a memeber of this does that mean that they are speaking in that position anytime they say anything, then unfortunately you have missed the point because you are not dealing with some sporting assocition etc but you are dealing with politics in politics everything you say can be used against you even if you are expressing your own point of view, which you obviously were.

Cheers

Rob

[Chaz]

no, i don't think you do Adam.

I have to join the chorus. Some wise and mature advice has been offered. All I read in reply suggests a childish tanty has resulted. The Marine park thread does not present the chairman of the SB TFPQ in a good light and some of the later replies in this thread should tell someone that they are fighting a losing battle. I would go so far as to suggest that Adam's performance on this site has done more harm to the TFPQ than a 100 extreme PETA representatives could ever hope for. Time to grow up Adam and shut up.

Brenden

[Shane Boese]

To all the Ausfish Members who are finding this argument with Adam is wearing a bit thin, I apologise, but with Adam now quoting the TFPQ constitution, I feel I must respond as his quotes are at odds with my copy of the said constitution. The only reasons I am responding is because when quoting a constitution in part only, it can be misleading to the reader.




So that brings us to this point where I am the Chair of the local Branch - now on with some constitutional matters.

The constitution states that the purpose of the branches is to support the goals of TFPQ (which are available as the mission statement on the website).

Sorry Adam the constitution states under Mission Statements - The Fishing Party (Qld) Page 2.

The Fishing Party (Qld) will work with party members and recreational fishers to improve the representation of the sport of recreational fishing at a political level. We will work co-operatively with the government of the day but at all times set out to achieve the best possible outcomes for its members and support base.

We will seek to ensure continued access to waterways, improve public education as to the benefits, both socially and economically of recreational fishing to the community, seek to enhance the funding of the sport both at a federal and state level and seek to improve the level of participation at a junior level.

The Fishing Party(Qld) will give recreational fishers in this state a voice through which it can make itself heard and in doing so adhere to the democratic principles which are the fundamental right of every Australian.

The fishing party seeks to promote and enhance this fundamentally Australian pastime and influence the political process by way of its sheer weight of numbers.


No where does it say your above mention quote.




Further in section 14.1 it states: “Any member who disagrees with a policy or decision of the party shall remain wholly free to express and advocate their own views, except on occasions when they are communicating in a public capacity (such as Ausfish?) as a representative of the Party, in which event they may express their own views, but make it clear that they do not reflect those of the general membership of the Party”.


Adamy
The constitution also states


"14.2 Any member of TFPQ shall conduct themselves as a credit to the Party, whether on part business or recognized as a member of the party at the time."




So back to closing the branch… With the controversy surrounding this issue I can (as section 11.1 dictates) no longer be “effective or capable of supporting the goals of TFPQ”. The constitution declares that if the branch can no longer do this, then that branch can be wound up.


Sorry adam section 11.1 dictates

A sub-branch may be wound up at the executives discretion without compensation or recourse, should the executive decide that the sub-branch be no longer effective or capable of supporting the goals of TFPQ.


Which means that you do not have the right to decide whether the branch closes or not - it is up to KC and the other Executives to make that decision. In addition the clause relates to the Branch in its entirety, not the effectiveness of the Chair. A Branch does not need to fold because of the inability of the Chair to fulfill his/her position.

Regards
Shane Boese

[dazza]

a public forum is not the place to sort out your differences
wake up to yourselves
cheers
dazza

[lippa]

Firstly, I am all for people who stand up for the rights of fisherman. However, I dont understand why this could not have been solved at the next party meeting instead of having an ugly fight drawn out in the public eye. Personaly Adam, I think it is a reality of politics that people will seize upon your comments and try to trurn them against you. Unfortunatley you are the chair of the branch 24/7 365 days a year and your comments do reflect the office you hold. I have read your initial post and understand what you were trying to say becuase I was thinking the the same thing about how the press were manipulating the situation. Problem is thats what the press do.

If you cannot take the personal sacrifice of being the chair of your branch 24/7 resign as you will do more harm then help. This is not the place to fight about problems within your party. I think that if you want to help, please continue to do so, but please no more of these silly fights in public places.

And to your comments about how so and so is a memeber of this does that mean that they are speaking in that position anytime they say anything, then unfortunately you have missed the point because you are not dealing with some sporting assocition etc but you are dealing with politics in politics everything you say can be used against you even if you are expressing your own point of view, which you obviously were.

Cheers

Rob


well said.

if a missed guided, well intentioned fish and chip cooker, can get some political clout, surley the fishing party, can muster up some live bait and have a decent crack at it.

the way it stands ya (tfpq) seem either to lazy, arrogant, childish, ect to pull a yabby pump or throw a cast net, ya'd rather bitch about who's gunna do it, who dit it last time, and without the bait, ya got no fish.
time to put up, shut up, and keep on keeping on.
i myself have no time to contribute, my finances are limited, but if a well formed party can present, i'll muster up a few bucks to support it. the way it is at the moment, i wouldn't give ya's a cold pie.

kc, maybe time you put a lid on it, and maybe a public statement for the betterment(is that a real word???) of the party is released.

thanks for being there (tfpq), i hoping you get over this speedbump, and pursue the party goals!

cheers

lippa

[PinHead]

"14.2 Any member of TFPQ shall conduct themselves as a credit to the Party, whether on part business or recognized as a member of the party at the time."

A lot of TFPQ members who have posted on here who obviously do not know of this one.

[GES]

HERE IS THE BAIT....


why make a poll on this Adamy? Are you saying you can't make a decision on this yourself and want a consensus of other people, many of whom you don't know, to decide for you? And to make the closing of the branch as public issue?

Is that the sort of leader you are?

Has the SB branch done anything under your leadership? Have you made any progress?

Nothing personal there, just a few hard questions to make you think.

Jeremy


NOW, JEREMY ... WAIT FOR THE BITE .... ;)

[Jeremy]

I don't think so. I don't think Adam will be coming back. I think we have all had our say on this and it is time to move on.

Jeremy

[webby]

The whole lot of you need to be Tarred and Feathered, you've done more harm then good, in hanging out your dirty laundry.
Wether you still a member, still have the power or lost the power this is certainly not the time and place with the up coming fights we have to eer and greive your differences.
You have turned it into a ring side event, where as it should have been done in more secure surrounds.
You have certainly put doubts in the minds of present and future members, and those in opposition must be laughing all the way to the next election.
regards

[tigermullet]

Well said, Webby. Even though I have a lot of time for people with passionately held beliefs there did seem to be a lot of emotion mixed up with mis-interpretation.

Little of it was productive and some, as you said, quite damaging.

All of it was, however, interesting.

I wouldn't mind being tarred and feathered but only if you leave the chooks attached to the feathers. But then I am a bit kinky;D

[Blueroo]

WHAT IS THIS absoloute CRAP about the TFPQ
All I can say is will you people really need to get your crap together or you will lose all credibity and your're footsoldiers.
Forget the next elections with so much discent in the camp.
Yes I have a RIGHT to say this as I was one of the people at the last state elections handing out how to vote cards for Shane B ALL DAY on election day with STUFF ALL help and putting up with abuse from greenies. If the TFPQ want to revoke my memebership for speaking out then F ing go for it.
All I can say is get over it, grow up and be unified.
I for one wont spend my next election handing out how to vote cards for a fractured party.
MY MESSAGE PEOPLE :- GET YOU SHIT TOGETHER>
Get the message
Stue

[Blueroo]

Forgive the spelling and grammar. I was emotional.

Any way rip out my guts for speaking out. I do care, I'm a rec fisherman and proud of it (also a member of TFPQ for a while any way)

WHAT WE ALL NEED TO DO IS WORK TOGETHER AS A TEAM.
A REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY BIG ONE.!!!!!!

Forget the infighting. Thats where the opposition groups will beat us

We are are fighting for a greater cause.
Let common sense and fishing sustainability rule.
Come on people prepare for the elections. THEY ARE COMING!!!!!!!

stu (a rec fisher from redcliffe)

[Blueroo]

Hay Adamy since you want to air things in public like this you can air my public resignation from the Fishing Party.
Shove it mate.
I'll go back to being a swinging voter. I still fish but Im not putting up with this bullcrap from my so called party leaders???????????????????????????????
You have lost me mate. You are right Webby, the damage from this will be huge.
Stu

[Lazybugger]

Having watched the thread do enough damage to a party I have nothing to do with, but like the objectives. I think its time for those main people involved to ask the mods to delete this thread before more damage is done. I am pretty sure nothing good can come of leaving it up here.

[mod5]

The thread has been creating good debate and there is no need for it to be removed

[Wally]

this is really good coming from you guys, see I am from WA and we have had Bob blurting on about how good the party is and what it has done for recreational fishing, begging us to create our own division for WA.

this post sums it all up really, You aren't united, which I can see why, bob told us we cant speak out, fark that, if I want to say something I will. I gather from the past posts, this is why Shane left

Bob told us that the TFP has done wonders/ benefited recreational fishing, WHAT. still waiting for those answers, lots of dodgem cars going on when ya ask serious questions like this, all we get is how bad everything is and how we have been stitched, but what has the party actually achieved ? please enlighten me, because if you guys want unity god knows how ya going to get it, especially when it hasn't done anything for ya 22 bucks in QLD the supposed strong hold, if I am wrong please tell me and I will eat humbled pie , but I have asked these questions and no one has answered them especially from Bob Smith


Wally

[Bruce_Bogtrotter]

i am sure someone will give you an answer to your questions..

but, i think you have missed the point of this thread. it started out as a misunderstanding, as the original comment could be misinterperated, with someone pointing out to adamy, that as Chairman of TFPQ he should choose his words carefully, people in opposition will use anything they can against them. it wasn't meant in malice, it was just someone pointing something out. you can be a member of the party & say what you like, no-one cares, you are just another redneck fisherman ( not a personal comment )..if someone in a position such as adamy says something they can use it, regardless of whether it is a personal opinion or not, he is the chairman of TPPQ bris. sth branch.

in a position like that it is difficult to voice an opinion..

i don't see any disunity, just misguided loyalty from a misunderstanding.
i am sure i will get negative comment from this, but, these are the ones that cause the problem because they don't/won't or can't grasp the situation..
BB

[Wally]

Thanks Bruce, I got the gist of this thread, but Bob quite clearly made a comment on another fishing forum in WA ,if you are a member of TFP you must quote your number and respect TFP's policies, anything out side of their policies or frame work is a big no no.

I don't know about you lot, but to me that stinks of dictatorship , and its one of the reason why I wont join, I mean who the hell is he to tell me what I can and can not say when he is 5000km away,

As I said why has Shane B left, from the posts on here its for the same reason, you guys are suppose to be the stronghold of the fishing Party, it doesn't look like that to me from over the other side of the country.



Wally

[PADDLES]

Wake up Wal, there's "dictatorships" everywhere ya look, having a strong leader who does the talking to the public is a necessary part of having a strong organisation.

I mean it's not really a dictatorship as such because the organisation should be discussing responses to issues behind closed doors (read - arguing like crazy) and then put on their unified public face to respond to the masses.

As an example, Johnny H would probably love to preach some crazy christian right wing krap to the lot of us but at the end of the day it'd be political suicide so he says what the party spin doctors tell him will be ok.

[Wally]

all cool Paddles don't know why I need to wake up, i was just asking a serious question , i just wanted to know what the TFP has done for Qld, has your fishery changed for the better, have they successfully benefited recreational fishing for the greater good. obviously from your post you don't know JACK, just attacking me

So. if some one from the fishing party in qld, or someone else that doesn't have to speak out of tune, can you please answer the question.

is that hard


wally

[kc]

Bugger!! I have to say I have personally stayed out of this thread. It has been absolutely destructive. I have given Adam some advice and Shane knows my thoughts but now in wades Wally so in wades TFPQ OFFICIALLY to this bloody silly discussion.

Wally I have read the entire 483 post "discussion" on the WA site. I understand your position and have to say, I have been "dissapointed" at the comments made at times by Bob. Part of the reason the Fishing Party, in Qld, has a "strained" relationship with TFP federally is the attitude of the federal "executive" but I am not going down this road.
So, what has being politically active achieved in Qld.

The history would take me too much time but in a short potted version.

* Changed the course of political history by having the "fishing vote" mean enough to change the senate balance of power.
*Gain a level of political access and influence which had been previuosly impossible.
*Get a funding package for the industry devastated by the rezonings extended from beyonds its original focus of just commercial fishing to include recreational fishing industry....this might not mean much to the broader church but it means an awful lot to those people who had lost their homes/businesses/families and livelihoods....this cost the Government more than $200M
*Changed the culture of Government departments in this state to a point where the "fishing vote" will NEVER again be taken for granted. We are real, we are 7% and we matter.
*Have a very biased survey, which would have further impacted on recreational fishing, removed and shelved.
*Changed a law of the land. Until 14th December it was a criminal offense to be caught fishing in the wrong spot...CRIMINAL for %$ sake. This was a parking infringement
*Got a far better deal from the Great Sandy Straights rezoning than would otherwise have been the case.
*We stopped a tourism pontoon and the subsequent "exclussion zone" which accompanied it in Cairns.


Wally, we have the ear of Government, we are the fire which now burns beneath the entire recreational fishing lobby "industry".

What has happened in the last 3 years has been remarkable, frustrating, eye opening and at times beyond belief.

3 years ago, if we, as individuals, clubs or lobby groups wanted to talk fishing with a minister or local MP we got the usual terse reply or letter from the tea lady to the assistant to the ministers secretary. Now we have direct, instant and effective contact to senators, ministers and MP's. Beyond that we get listened to, we make a difference we get mentioned in media across the state and we can actually influence Government policy, laws and outcomes. Not because we are better, know more or try harder but because fishing, in Qld, means votes...lots and lots of votes...which we collect and "trade"...this is what this is all about. Gather ye votes and what am I bid!!

I have seen the destructive comments from both sides in WA and most of you, including you Wally, have missed the point. This is about politics. Its not about MPA's, its not a pissing competition about whose science is best or who can do what, it's not about fishing licences and its not about on line insults...it's about politics.

I am happy if this thread now runs on and talk politics. Not destructively but in a positive manner. TFPQ has never had all the answers and has learnt a lot from Ausfishers. I have to say, having read the WA site I learnt absolutely nothing from it other than to recognise, again, that we are a broad church of diverse opionion and to become politically active is a path we wish we had never had to follow.
But, here we are, with a tiger by the tail,and things are, I honestly believe, better for fishing, in Qld, as a result.

KC

[Bruce_Bogtrotter]

there you go Wal, from the horses mouth..won't get a better answer than that.
BB

[kc]

Following is a post from another thread but for the benifit of Wally and any others who are looking at Ausfish from a Western Australian perspective and have been following the WA "debate" about forming a TFPWA this post is equally relavent.

The Qld peak bodies and lobby groups could just as easily be Recfish WA and the aglers alliance formed by Ben Patrick at Halco.


Grant makes a good fist of this and it is important to demonstrate just how “we” fit into the picture, or at least how we see ourselves fitting in.

The involvement of organised and co-ordinated lobbying in the fisheries and environmental management is taking a leaf from the environmental lobby.
Just as the various arms or “pieces of the pie” of the environmental lobby are “apolitical”, groups such as the Wilderness Society, WWF, Queensland Conservation Council, National Parks Association and AMCS, so too should MBAA remain apolitical (to a degree).

What the greens have, within their broad church of lobby groups, is a political arm. A group whose job is to gather votes and trade politically for a better deal (and access for the lobby groups)
It is the job of the varied arms of the environmentalist to do the work, lodge the submissions, sit on the various industry councils and advisory boards, not the political wing. You will notice on any advisory board there are no representatives of the political system but most certainly representatives of the various lobby groups who are in turn supported by the influence of the votes gathered by their political wing.

Some may have noticed the “square up” which occurred after the last Federal election when the funding to many and varied environmental lobby groups was cut. The influence of the political wing, the Greens, was no longer as important.

So, as we evolve and learn the lessons of 25 years of environmental activism and political influence where are “we”

In our “pie” we have QSIA, Sunfish, Sunfish NQ, Recfish and now, most certainly MBAA.
We have TFPQ, which has now demonstrated, both federally and at a state level, that it can muster 7% of the vote.
TFPQ has, in the last 3 years, tried to be all things. It has written the submissions, sat on the panels and tried to be lobbyists. All we should be doing is working on maximising votes, which in turn empower the lobby groups.
In political circles we have had very significant results in areas which are of little interest to average fishos and little interest to the lobby groups. Things like the changing of the law in respect of mandatory criminal convictions for fishing offences and the structural adjustment payouts to businesses affected by rezonings.

It was described to me at the start of all “this” that ultimately, and to use the exact analogy. This is a bit like a BBQ. The peak bodies and lobbyists are the BBQ plate. They do the work, they, to some degree get the headlines and the kudos and the party is the fire underneath. The more heat (votes) we can provide the better the plate can do its job.

Personally, I am delighted to see MBAA taking the lead on the Bay. They have a good cross section of representation. A well respected chair in Bruce Alvey and, I would like to think, some understanding of the level of influence they have being linked to the growing political activism of the fishing industry.

Had TFPQ not been active would Andrew Laming have started the ball rolling with MBAA in the first place? Would we have the current profile of fishing and the bays rezoning? Would fishing be news? Take as a case in point the boat rally. MBAA did all the work, we did our bit getting politics (and politicians) involved…they bring the press and TFPQ gets their head on every TV station (even though they interviewed others) and the rezoning issue is news.

Look at Traveston Dam….the local Dam Busters do the work and organising, Bob Brown shows up with the media circus, Dam Busters get the publicity and images and Bob Brown does the sound bites for TV. That’s how it works!!!

As has been pointed out. We are in this together. The whole, rec pro thing will be a debate which never goes away and I am sure there is often disagreements within the broad church of the environmental lobby but this has not stopped them being enormously effective, at our expense.
TFPQ can stand by its policy statement since day 1. We oppose any form of fishing which is unsustainable.

There are going to be disagreements, head buts and growing pains along the way……..for sure, but as at right now, the fishing “movement” is a whole lot different to what it was 3 years ago when the reef was rezoned and public input into the process ignored.
This will not happen in the Bay.

Support MBAA as the peak body representing your rights on the Bay and, far more importantly working on the inside.
No such opportunity ever existed when the reef was rezoned. The environmental lobby had a ring side seat but fishing was absolutely excluded.

TFPQ will do its bit come election time. We will again gather enough votes to determine who wins the last Senate seat in Qld and this in turn empowers the fishing industry and it’s lobbyists. If we have learnt one thing it is to lobby without offering something in return is really just begging. Votes are the only thing that matters to a politician. It is not about right, wrong, just or fair. It is about votes and staying in power.

KC

[PADDLES]

sorry wal, didn't mean 'wake up' to sound insulting.

no way i could answer your question, but kc looks to have done a good job and has also answered some of the questions in my mind as to what tfpq has achieved.

[Wally]

Thanks KC for the reply, The one thing that has me against the TFP is the rules and policies that they have, and from a fair few posts over a few sites I gather sometimes they don't fit with the QLD TFP either, which has me worried :-/

and here



Wally I have read the entire 483 post "discussion" on the WA site. I understand your position and have to say, I have been "disappointed" at the comments made at times by Bob. Part of the reason the Fishing Party, in Qld, has a "strained" relationship with TFP federally is the attitude of the federal "executive" but I am not going down this road.



what may be good for Bob in pretty NSW isn't going to fit in with a coast line that stretches 14,000km ( WA), which is why I asked him if we could have our own policies. his answer to that was as long as they fit in with the guild lines of the TFP:P take what you wish out of that

The silly part about it KC is he doesn't realize that their are a lot of doers over here and are willing to help out, but some of his remarks have put them on the back foot, and they aren't rushing in, to give this a push, and certainly I for one can see why, I keep asking how many members he has in WA but wont get a response, methinks the reason why is the above. remember to I did hand out flyers the last time this was banded around

From me looking in, it seems that yeah you have problems but at least you giving it a good shot, maybe someone from TFP should give you a little more credit where it is due hey:D

No worries paddles;)

Wally

[Hunta]

FRom the perspective of an outsider looking in - I certainly dont see the effects of a "strained" relationship of the Qld entity to the "mothership" of the NSW based entity. On the surface, they look like two separate organisations doing their own thing - but I guess both have the same basic intentions and philosophies?

I was pretty impressed - if what Derek says is true that TFP has managed to put up 20 candidates in the NSW State elections. I hope they do well for the sake of the fishing vote in general.

Anyway Wally maybe that is the way forward for your group? Run a separate organisation with links to TFP? but then again I dont know much about how all this works. Maybe KC can clarify?

Shirl

[kc]

Fair call Shirl.

It is clearly the case that TFPQ and TFPNSW have different views on some issues. We differ in our belief that a group based in NSW can be all things to all people. We believe that the deregistration of the party will be a watershed opportunity to rebuild and reshape at a federal level with a new structure, constitution and new roles and responsibilities and look forward to being part of this.

I know Wally and others got very uppity about some group on the other side of the country telling the WA guys what they may or may not be able to do in terms of policy but I do not believe this issue was properly explained.

I have to admit I can’t keep across issues in Qld and without the help of many people doing the hard yards, feeding in the info and ideas I would have no hope. Issues such as the zoning of Moreton Bay and issues on Fraser are prime examples and I have to acknowledge the work Shane has done in this regard.

What should be pointed out is any viewing to TFP policy will note it is all very motherhood stuff with very little one could complain about but also very little detail. It forms a simple broad church of direction and beliefs.
Look then at QLD policy and you will find it much more specific, regionalised and detailed but still working within the motherhood realm of “improving fishing”.



A case in point.



Policy



1. In respect of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park and associated zoning framework, it is the policy of TFPQ that an overhaul of zonings implemented as at July 1st 2004 take place to lessen the burden on the recreational fishing community. Such overhaul to work within the framework of available evidence and opt for split reef systems rather than the current practice of whole reef green zones. That a clear distinction at legislative and enforcement level be recognised between the varied fisheries techniques used by recreational and commercial sectors and an adherence to the governing laws applicable to the GBR which both allow and encourage reasonable and sustainable use. As part of this review an increase in the number of Pink zones and directly contrasting reduction in Green zones in hard reef areas and other areas of particular and identifiable biological importance.



This is Qld specific policy, that still fits within the framework of TFP generally.



I would have expected that a TFPWA could and would come up with a whole range of region specific policies along these lines.



I know Wally has a bee up his &% about RFL’s and this has been an issue of debate across Ausfish many times. TFPQ opposes RFL’s but if members wanted that policy changed and put forward a motion for such at an AGM and it was adopted, then it would be changed. Our current beef about RFL’s is really to do with a further reason to not go fishing, not take it up in the first place. Everywhere RFL’s have been introduced, both participation and compliance has fallen. Personally I disagree with RFL’s but not on grandiose ideological terms about citizen’s rights etc . Just that they stop people from participating, stop kids starting and it is just another tax.



I felt a couple of times Wally that I should have stuck my head into the WA debate but it is just none of my business. Trying to run TFPQ is already overwhelming. It is up to you guys, if you want to make change, to get involved. Despite its shortcomings TFP and its various state branches are the first real attempt at political representation by any sporting “group”. It will only get better with time, get better with involvement of others and get better with a renewed and progressive direction at federal level.



I will say again, from my experience, more can be achieved through political activism than can ever be achieved by lobbying, petitions, submissions and peak bodies. I hope someone in WA picks up the ball (or poison chalice) and runs with it.

It is thankless, time consuming and the better halves end up thinking you have an on line girlfriend the amount of time it ends up taking up at night……but, at the end of the day, when we have a little win against the bastards, it’s as good as pulling a meter barra from a tight snag on 4kg.;)



The WA debate (s*&fisght) could have been handled better...so should the start of this particular thread. If you Wally want to take back to WA some of what can and has been achieved in QLD just email me on kc@whitsunday.net.au or give me a call on 0414 785 462. I am happy to provide the help but really can't do any of the work. It's just none of my business but I do know what you guys face in WA is very much the same issues as are faced across the country.



Get seriuos and give politcal activism a chance. What have you got to lose.....beside sleep, your wife and your hair;) ...sounds like you are already losing lots of your fishing!



Cheers mate



KC

[Gazza]

Wally walpamur , NO seperate RFL has e-v-e-r worked in W.A. e-v-e-r
Please explain??

RFW has less members than a votable party in w.a. , even if they pretend their the Peak Party, and should represent you.
Please explain??

The SEQ BRANCH should remain ,the difficult job of "who" leads that, with amplified support ,is to be decided....apparently

VOTE the candidate(s) in your electorate....if you choose

Gazza

[Owen]

Let me see.....
The elected officials of TFP deem it appropriate to discuss party business on an internet forum and I'm expected to believe they have the political nouse to represent my interests in parliament????
wake up to yourselves gentlemen.