Knots for braid?

[Adamy]

Has anyone out there had much experience with spiderwire stealth?? I have just obtained a batch and having trouble with knots (joining braid to mono leader) that I use for other braids - It seems like the stealth cuts the leader material after only a few casts - this has happened to me too many times now - have lost quite a few lures on the cast - its casts out fine and then when I wind in - theres no leader left - but the knot in the braid is still intact leaving me to believe the mono has been cut through.

I'm using a uni to blood, uni to uni and another knot I dont know the name of - any suggestions?

The line itself is great casts a mile and is nice through the guides - I bought quite a few rolls of 6lb (1lb diameter) it retails at $44.95 but if antone wants to try some and maybe perfect the knots - I can let a few rolls go at $20each plus postage (whatever that is)

Looking forward to your thoughts

[Huggy_B]

you could try a bimini twist with an albright, but I suspect that it will impeed castability.

Im surprised that a double uni is "cutting" through - I use that to join platypus super braid (4lb) to 4 - 6lb mono leader and if any braid will cut Im sure that will, its like frickin razor wire!
Do you adequately lubricate (ie. slobber all over) your knots before tensioning them? Inadequate lubing can have the effect you are describing.
And are the lines of fairly similar diameter? If they arent, the knots mentioned will not work so well and the knot will "pull itself undone" so to speak.

[Tony_N]

Adamy

Mate, it just may be possible that you are making a mistake I also made once. You say that you are using a "uni to uni" knot. That indicates that you are tying a uni knot to a uni knot. This will cut your mono at just about every cast. The double uni knot (recommended) is quite different to a uni to uni connection.

www.thaifishingguide.com/fishtechequip/ techniques/knots/double_uni_knot_steps.html

I tie a bimini twist in the braid and for the double uni I use 5 wraps for the mono and 8 wraps for the braid.

FWIW
Tony

[PMC]

Spider wire and all fused spectra lines are very sharp and will cut leader if not tied correctly. Fused lines flatten out and make a very sharp edge, Braided lines are more round because of there construction and are a little more forgiving, but will still cut mono if not tied properly.
A bimini in the braid will help, try and get hold of one of Geoff Wilsons books on tying braid, they are invaluable.
Paul

[Adamy]

Thanks for that guys.... I'll try the double uni with the bimini double and see if I dont lose more lures - I'm casting 10-40g slugs off the seaway wall - so its bound to put a lot of pressure on the knots - although I have never had a problem previously using uni to uni when I was running spiderwire fusion - but this stealth seems to be much sharper.

Oh yeh a question with regards to the bimini in braid... isnt the purpose of a bimini to provide a knot with increased elasticity absorbing the shock of strikes etc? Therefore with braids nil or close to nil elasticity - does the knot still acheive its purpose? I normally use a spider hitch or similar for the double - quicker to tie when the fish are chopping...... Your thoughts are more than welcome

Thanks again,

Adam

[Tony_N]

Oh yeh a question with regards to the bimini in braid... isnt the purpose of a bimini to provide a knot with increased elasticity absorbing the shock of strikes etc? Therefore with braids nil or close to nil elasticity - does the knot still acheive its purpose?

I don't believe it has anything to do with being a shock leader. My understanding is that its doubled to increase the strength of the knot, to spread the "bite" of the braid and most importantly, to help prevent knot slippage.

[Tony_N]

I have never had a problem previously using uni to uni when I was running spiderwire fusion - but this stealth seems to be much sharper.

Re-reading your post you are still saying uni to uni - are you absolutely sure you are actually tying a double uni knot and not a uni to uni knot? "Sharper" shouldn't be an issue if you are tying the knot correctly

[craftycarp]

Oh yeh a question with regards to the bimini in braid... isnt the purpose of a bimini to provide a knot with increased elasticity absorbing the shock of strikes etc?

The main purpose of a bimini (not the only one though) is to give the knot that connects to leader more surface area. These new braids and especially the fused lines, as others have said are sharper/thinner than mono and therefore cut through leader material when under strain. A well tied bimini adds strength by increasing the surface area associated with braided/fused line. The extra surface area for all intense and purposes makes the braided line (for want of another word) thicker and therefore less likely to slice through the mono leader.

Having said all that a spider hitch will basically do the same job, However I have found when targetting large hoodlums or big reefies a spider hitch will cut through itself under pressure. But for breaming and most other light tackle fishing its fine. These guys on TV who tie bimini's for bream I find a little paranoid.. Then again my fishing isn't being filmed, if it was I might think differently

Finally I have to say properly tied double uniknot should not be breaking so often. After reading this I went downstairs and cut a few peices off a 6 pound reel of spiderwire I have down stairs and tied a few double uni's to 6lpd flurocarbon leader. Tied the whole lot to the end of a broom stick and connected a big sinker and started swinging this around in the backyard (bullwhip style, Wife yelled at me after a while so I had to stop). It didn't want to break, I eventually got it to break by standing on the sinker and pulling pretty hard. This was without spider hitch or bimini.

So as far as I can tell you might be tying the knots a little badly or the other possibilty is that your leader material is a little old ?

Anyway

[PMC]

If you wanted to try it, (and it does work), find some of Harros knotted dogs, he makes them in double lengths for slug chucking. Its a simple job of tying a bimini double then "figure of eight knot to connect the leader. The knot directions are on the pac. Have a look at his website if you cant find any for sale.

[WHITTO]

Tie your leader on first then tie your braid,this should stop the failure, Cheers Whitto

[grayson]

I use 6lb fireline on a light spinning outfit I have and use a double uni without problems. I am hung up on using bimini's but have found it unecessary (so far anyway) in this line class, and I reckon it casts better without the double. I have experimented with doubling the braid on itself when tieing the double uni an I reckon its a good ide and worth considering. The only hitch I have is that I sometimes have trouble tidying up the knot (the double not snugging up evenly), but practice should fix that. I use a dab of superglue on a lot of my knots in the belief that it might help stop the braid slipping (well it helps me anyway). I make sure I use heaps of lubrication and I have taken to carting around a snmall plastic container of graphite powder for this purpose after witnessing a buddy using the stuff. I have to admit that while I cart the stuff around I have only actually used it once so can't say if its the go yet.

[Adamy]

Hey excellent feedback!! and yes Tony I have been using a uni to uni knot - not a double uni knot - Which I have never before had a problem but now I am thinking that with this new line it must be the problem... so will use the double uni in future - Thanks.

Craftycarp - you crack me up - I wouldnt have the guts to whip a snapper sinker around the backyard - tell ur wife I'm on her side haha - My wife would have a fit too Generally my knots are pretty good and material is new - I think its my choice of knots - I'll give the double uni a go.... and post the results

Often I have trouble with the double opening during the cast and wrapping around the guide - ruins the cast and makes the lure jerk back like a dog running at full speed - then being stopped by a short chain. Usually happens when I am a little eager to get the slug out and throw too vigorously.... anyone have this problem? any solutions? can you twist the double so that it doesnt open - or will that wreck the knot?

[Cloud_9]

get your self a Geoff wilson book of knots.
covers everything your needing.
if your bream fishing or under a couple kilos.
i use NO DOUBLE. even with 4lb braid.
i tie a albright knot. or slightly improoved Albright knot.
No knot failures .
the thinner the main the more raps around the leader
and i use this for up to 20lb leader to 4lb main.
in the heavier lines like 30 main ( braid ) i do a biminy double and then a
tony jonesd wind on leader knot.
both of these methods cast well.
the knots are very compact with no big tag ends.
you can hear them click through the guides, but thats about all.
test your knots before you fish with them.
PS the book is $10.
Cheers Cloud 9

[Tony_N]

.............. and yes Tony I have been using a uni to uni knot - not a double uni knot - Which I have never before had a problem but now I am thinking that with this new line it must be the problem... so will use the double uni in future - Thanks.............

I feel sure that this will change it around for you. As I said, Ihave done the same thing and it was driving me nuts. Finally sat myself down and carefully thought through what I was doing with the knot and it dawned on me that I had for some unknown reason, permanently changed it from double uni to uni to uni. Reverted to double uni and no further trouble.

cheers

Tony

[Huggy_B]

it seems as though if you revert to the double uni, then you should be cooking with gas. I use that on all my light tackle and have even caught a 7kg pinkie on 10lb braid with a 12lb trace!