Reply With Quotego with the free wheel hubs, put them in and use them accaisionly, cheeper for fuel, been like it now for years, why change
cheers
blaze
OBESELETE or NECESSARY ?
Background.
I own a landy series 3.
Sometime in its early history had aftermarket Selectro Locking hubs fitted to the front end. They have just started leaking fluid around the locking mechanism from the Swivel Pin Housing (similar to CV Joint), so I took it to a Landy specific mechanic to size up my options.
Basically he said there is a solid arguement against Free Wheeling hubs. Number one - to engage them you must know you need them in advance & be on clear ground to alight your vehicle & engage them.
Also, the majority of people DO NOT lock them in often enough. This means that for say 95% of the time the bearings have a load on a single point that flattens one or two of the rollers & establishes a groove in the bearing housing.
The same also happens to the front propellor shaft which just bounces up & down on the bearings of the front diff & gear box as the wheels are freewheeling.
When they then get locked in (usually in tough conditions) the bearing is forced to fight this uneveness leading to premature uneven wear etc. & oil leaks.
He recomended I go back to the original setup - front hubs permanently locked in - something he pointed out being done in most new 4WD. This is done simply by restoring original equipment - the locking plate. Much cheaper than buying a new set of Freewheeling hubs. Then - if I wanted I could source replacement seals for the old Selectros in case I wanted to put them on.
What do you think?
Can you see any faults in his arguement?
My concern was initially the extra noise & possible load. But that barely used front diff is the quietest thing in the landy.
chris
go with the free wheel hubs, put them in and use them accaisionly, cheeper for fuel, been like it now for years, why change
cheers
blaze
Ah the ponderings of the Land Rover people.
I see nothing wrong with free wheeling hubs myself Chris they have been around for plenty of time now to prove their worth.
Having the hubs and transfer case not engaged cuts down on vibration and noise and extra wear to the steering components.
And it will burn less fuel.
The wear you describe from the bearing rubbing the one spot is known as brinelling, I am yet to see this be a major cause of concern and is more prevelent at the King Pin bearings in the swivel joint, needing replacement now and then.
A lot 4X4 these days are now constant drive at the front axel negating the requirement for the hub locks.
I would be leaving the old Rover as she is.
And as for a Land Rover leaking oil. ??? I can't say I have ever heard of that. LOL
Hope I have helped Cheers Kev. 8)
ta gents (& thanks for being gentle Kev whilst my chin was laid bare)
I must admit Kev - you had every opportunity but you showed great restraint and polish.
My respect for Landcruiser owners has gone up a notch - then again it was at the bottom so it could only go up.
CONFUCIOUS SAY [smiley=chinese.gif]
"do not awaken the sleeping dragon"
I may own a 75 series Cruiser ute and sing the praises for the Tojo Utes, as they have been a great work wagon for me for many a year.
But please do not make the assumption to categorise me a Toyota lover.
Cheers Kev.
And besides fishing for bites from Land Rover People is to easy and I have set higher goals for myself. RAFLMAO.
Having driven a S 3 for several years I reckon you'd be made to get rid of the free wheeling hubs if you do a fair bit around town.
To see what you think of driving without them, lock'm in and drive around town for a week - you'll notice the steering will be rougher and fuel consumption higher.
Even if bearings do need replacing a bit more often, I reckon it's worth free wheeling for the lack of wear on everything else.
Cheers.
Quote
Basically he said there is a solid arguement against Free Wheeling hubs. Number one - to engage them you must know you need them in advance & be on clear ground to alight your vehicle & engage them.
The same also happens to the front propellor shaft which just bounces up & down on the bearings of the front diff & gear box as the wheels are freewheeling.
Hi I didmy appreanticeship and 5 years as a mechanic in the Army, Series 2A and 3 landrovers.
Stick with the freewheeling hubs and get a new mechanic.
1) The load on the front wheels is on the wheel bearings, guess what they are rotating irrespective of wether the hub is engaged or not.
2) If the hubs are not engaged and neither one of the 4wd positions is selected, ie: low or high range, then the front propshaft is not moving.
You may also recall that freewheeling hubs were not done away with, In the 80s as they started improving the Jap vehicles came out with Auto free wheel hubs, whereby you just selected 4wd drove forward and they engaged, to disengage when you selected 2wd again you had to reverse up 10-20m until they let go.
Then they all copied the range rovers 3rd diff and atarted to adopt constant all wheel drive.
You will get better fuel economy etc with the free wheels, just a good idea to engage them semi regularly.
Oh the oil leaks, thats just pommy revenge, they used to put drip trays under them on the showroom floor.
with respect to your knowledge & experience Ian, the gentleman concerned probably trained the trainers who trained you - & he is still working with the beasts & training - i found him thru recomendation & reputation - any technical breach in terms would have been my interpretation & poor memory.Originally Posted by IanB
The point you make is the point he makes though - once in free wheel the shafts stop spinning & vibrate up & down on poorly lubricated bearing.
I have also since found out the swivel pins on a S3 use a universal joint that incorporates a compressed fibre bearing feed thru a small inlet that requires oil movement to stay lubed - at least 100mile per month is recommended. Incidently (if anyone is interested), against common belief, this is why the new liquid grease shots available from Landrover for swivel pins on Defenders are INAPPROPRIATE for S3 - the grease will not feed the bearing.
I have gone with the free wheelers - that way I can slowly reintroduce more rotation to the front end - should the parts have some uneven wear & dryness issues. Also with the 2.25l engine the slightly better available horse power when towing in free wheel is desired.
Thanks to all for the input - it helped me reach a middle ground I'm comfortable with.
chris
[smiley=confused.gif]
Geez, with fuel figures consistantly around and below 10l/100km and my first set of tyres replaced at just shy of 140,000km I'm wondering how much better my Series II Discovery TD5 would be if it wasn't Fulltime 4WD.
Rev!
"Go n-ithe an cat thu is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat"
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