Cruiser in-line 6 or V8 for towing and beach

[seatime]

Hi All

This probably has been covered before. It's a tricky one to search, so I thought I'd ask again, and maybe too lazy to search every Cruiser post

I'm after some holistic wisdom and advise on a new tow vehicle for a 1500kg boat/trailer.

At present I have a '98 Patrol 2.8lt Turbo diesel, it's been a very reliable vehicle, but hasn't had to tow anything over about 1000kg regularly. I got a bad feeling if I'm towing 1500 very regularly the probs will start. It has towed 2500kg, once, from Glen Innes to Coffs, and I'd never want to do anything like that again. 1500kg on a very regular basis will kill it for sure, I'm guessing, and I need a reliable vehicle.
I'm ready for a change in brands, I like Patrols, though would like an 8 seater (tribe of kids), diesel's a bit sluggish around town and on the beach when loaded up. I feel turbo's are something else to go wrong, and at times the lag has nearly got me in the poo.

So, what's the opinions on Cruiser petrol 6's or V8's regarding pulling power, fuel consumption, purchase price, servicing and other stuff that I'm not aware of?
Looking at next year to purchase, prolly no more than $40K, if possible.

thanks in advance.

Steve.

[Roughasguts]

What's wrong with the Nissan petrol motor.
They got plenty of power for towing, might be a tad thirsty compared to the cruiser though.

[BrandonH]

I would go the 6 mate, cheaper rego, fuel and you won't dig a hole in the sand as easy with the 6

Cheers
Brandon...

[Chimo]

Hi gelsec

Here is some stuff to look at; save you having to search too much.

Your probably right about the small motor but the 4.2 (TD 42 ) Nissan was built to have a turbo on it and from my own experience if you have a turbo timer, an oil cooler and change your oil ever 5000k (touch wood ) I,ve had no hassels towing 2 tonne plus with the GQ for 15 yrs.

Below are some posts from another thread; its still raining so you have probably got time to read instead of fishing, although beach driving in wet sand is good too

Cheers

Chimo

Re the GQ 4.2 TD if you go this way

If it has not got a turbo, and most didn't you will find as I did with the same vehicle, that fitting one is the making of the unit. With the old GQ you have the best ride with the coil suspension and your back and kidneys will also thank you too.

With the turbo the power went up from 85kw to about 130kw and the torque also increased by about 40%. It now flies up long grinding hills in 5th where without the turbo you were back to 4 or even 3 on the long steeper ones. With the cruise control and the really good Nissan seats that haven't been mentioned I used to do 2000k trips and get out feeling like I'd just been to the shops.

I fitted a Turbo Dynamics (Dubbo NSW) unit with a schwietzer turbo (much larger than the Nissan unit) that is oil cooled. Also I put an oil cooler and timer on. Mine has done about 140,000 since I fitted the turbo. Also make sure that who ever fits the turbo sets up the injector pump to suit and for durability I would suggest no more than 7lbs booste. You can get heaps more power with more boost but you won't have reliability. As you may have seen on other threads I recently fitted new OME shockers and Poly airs to cope with 200kg draw bar load and 2.5 t of boat and the old GQ is like a newie all over again.

GQs also had a habit of pulling to the left and a kit from Narellan Truck Service? in NSW fixes that really easily. There is a an old thread on this on the site too.

Good luck which ever you decide to go

Cheers
Chimo

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banshee
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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #7 - on: 01. Nov 2006 at 21:15 » The stickers resemble a metal plate glued in place near the lower hinge measuring about two inches square with various info stamped onto them,only on TD models pre '95.For more info Google "Toyota 80 series Turbo Diesel",probably very old news by now but should still be there in the back pages somewhere.My mates '93 TD droped it's second set of big ends at 295K kms 11 months ago,set him back six and a half grand.
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Kendall249
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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #8 - on: 01. Nov 2006 at 21:34 » cheers banchee I had a look and found a sticker with a date and a couple of codes engraved on it.




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rob tranter
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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #9 - on: 02. Nov 2006 at 06:56 » Hi all,
wanted an 80 series no matter what, looked around for about 4 months, all had over 300k on clock and all cost the earth, settled for a 93 Patrol non turbo, $13,500 260k on speedo. Goes really well, only fault so far besides non turbo is slight growl in box 1st, 2nd and reverse from 500 to 900rpm,so I don't drive that slow, in those gears. Did ask a Turbo mob about fitting one and if bottom end wouild need renewing at same time, his response, not in nissans, they're a good strong motor, all 90% of rebuilds for him are Toyota's, now that pleased me and surprised me as I have always been a toyota fan.
Chimo
how many k's on her when you fitted turbo
regards
Rob
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Chimo
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Chimo@Ausfish.com.au

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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #10 - on: 02. Nov 2006 at 07:45 » Morning Rob

Your right about Toyotas needing rebuilds in the motor and gearboxs. That why together with the coil suspension I went GQ. If I remember correctly the GQ had done about 30,000 to 40,000 kms on it when the turbo was fitted. I think I put up with the 85 KW and lack of torque for about 12 months during which time I did a lot of research about options and different turbos. Ended up getting a diesel injector specialist's advice and he ended up getting the unit and charging me for fitting it. That was an interesting excercise too cause after I'd done most of the work fitting oil cooler tubo timer and pulling off the old exhaust and manifold and moving the air cleaner and fitting the turbo and new exhaust system thru to the rear of the truck I asked why was I paying him to do the job. He said it was so if anything ever went wrong I'd know what was happening and what to do about it!! What he did do was make sure i did't stuff things up and set up the injector pump and the booste. We also started the engine with just the turbo on and no exhaust piping or resonator and it was really quiet As Allan explained at the time this is why all you really need is a big pipe and an open resonator to the back cause all your doing is looking good and getting rid of the back pressure that the standard Nissan exhaust system creates. Change the oil every 5000km and the thing hasn't missed a beat for over 15 yrs so I can't complain. Mind you the timer never lets it turn off unti either 1 3 or 5 minutes cool down has happened after the key is turned off.

Sorry its a bit of a long answer to your question but I guess your thinking turbo and I thought some of this info may be of interest.

Cheers

Chimo
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_Dan_
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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #11 - on: 02. Nov 2006 at 15:03 » Quote from leezor on 30. Oct 2006 at 19:21:
Am looking at purchasing one of these second hand and after a little advice.
Have found a few early 90 models within my budget of around $20k, but have noticed that several of them have had major overhauls at around the 260,000km mark.
I also spoke to several dealers who warned me off saying that these are notorious for require overhauling under 300,000kms.

Is there any truth to this?? And what should I look out for when buying one?

Cheers,

Lee

I know of Nissan Patrol, 2.8 turbo deisel 1999 model with 90,000km on it for sale at the moment if your budget can stretch to 23k , the problem being is its in Bundaberg. It flawless condition as i have seen photos. Here is the link for it...


http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!cs_content.dealer_vehicle?vehicle_id=34 62808&current_rec=3&total_rec=57&sort_type=1&make_ id=5&model_id=7&state_id=4&region_id=105&search_di stance=25

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shadrack
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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #12 - on: 02. Nov 2006 at 15:30 » Hi Lee,

There are a few suggestions here about fitting turbos to normally aspirated vehicles. The landcruiser and probably all other makes and models were never designed to take turbos except for factory produced turbo models of course. The factory produced models have beefed up bottom ends and are designed to take the extra loads, all others run a real risk of damaging the motor. Naturally the turbo people wont tell you this.

Regards
Tony
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Chimo
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Re: Landcruiser 80 Series Turbo Diesel
« Reply #13 - on: 02. Nov 2006 at 19:56 » This info may be of interest re turbos and GQs

Chimo

Editorial Home More News Car Reviews Carsales Home

Nissan GQ Patrol (1988-98) (May 2004)

Nissan Patrol GQ (1988-98)
The Nissan Patrol GQ has been one of the success stories of the past 20 years. There are still plenty around on the second-hand market and they're excellent value.

It's only because of sound engineering that the GQ Patrol (1988–1998) stayed competitive with new releases from Toyota, Isuzu-GM, Land Rover and Mitsubishi, because the powertrain, basic suspension and bodywork didn’t change much throughout that 10-year life.

Even more aged are the floor pan, firewall, bonnet, doors, glass and roof panels, which are the same as those produced for the MQ Patrol released back in 1980.

The petrol-fuelled TB42 six and the Nissan Diesel TD42 six had identical bore and stroke dimensions for the same displacement of 4169cc, but quite different outputs. The petrol engine was good for 125kW at 4200rpm, with a torque maximum of 325Nm at 2800rpm, while the naturally aspirated diesel put out 85kW at 4000rpm and 264Nm at 2000rpm.

Both petrol and diesel 4.2-litre models were fitted with a five-speed manual as standard, with a four-speed automatic option on 4.2-litre petrol models.

The GQ engine changes since 1988 were the introduction of the RB30, 3.0-litre petrol six option in March 1990, electronic fuel injection on Ti Patrols from early 1992 and, in February 1995, the Patrol range was revamped and the RX specification was introduced. A turbocharged 2.8-litre diesel was introduced and quickly became the most popular Patrol model.

The three-litre RB30 was almost identical to that used in the then-current Commodore, but without injection. Carburettored, it produced 100kW at 4800rpm, with maximum torque of 224Nm at 3000rpm.

The three-litre Patrol came with a different transmission, sharing the close-ratio box with the 300ZX sportscar, but with the standard Patrol's transfer case. This transmission is not an ideal towing powertrain.

Fuel injection on Ti models didn't do much for the 4.2-litre petrol engine's outputs -- going up marginally to 129kW at a lower 4000rpm and 330Nm at a higher 3200rpm -- but fuel consumption was greatly improved. Testing the Patrol Ti against Toyota's 80-Series 24-valve 4.5-litre six showed very little performance and fuel consumption difference.

Along with transmission changes, the April 1992 revamp saw upgrades across the range, including four-wheel discs on all wagon models. There were also a Coil Cab ute and cab/chassis released, featuring coil springs for the first time on a Japanese ute.

This unit was based on the Patrol wagon chassis, so retained coil springs front and rear, in contrast to the Patrol cab/chassis and utes, which retained MQ bodywork and leaf-spring suspension.

The Coil Cab was designed around the GQ cab, with a wall behind the front seats. Rated payload was 1100kg, with a trailer-towing capacity of 2.5 tonnes. Originally launched only in ST trim level, the Coil Cab range was extended one year later by a DX version with a bench seat.

What breaks?
GQ Patrols have few major problems, with the most common fault being leaking rear-axle oil seals. The cooling system is marginal, so after-market turbodiesel models may be stressed. Having said that, the TD42 bottom-end was actually built to take a turbocharger (as in the TD42T, which didn’t get here in GQ form) so it's strong as an ox.

You really don't have to be too scared that an aftermarket turbo is going hurt the motor -- just be cautious of signs of overheating. Patrols that do plenty of tough offroading are likely to suffer from bent front-axle housings, Panhard rods and rear trailing arms.

There was a recall on early GQ front Panhard rods. Hard-worked Patrols also wear out their engine mounts and crack fuel tanks around the drain plug holes. Seats suffer, breaking recliner mechanisms and floor runners.

Some petrol engines have had camshaft-hardening problems and all have corrosion-prone coil leads -- often bad enough to crack the distributor cap around the coil-lead tower.

The RB30 engine suffers from sticky carburettor linkages and three-litre models that have done heavy towing or bush work are likely to have gearbox-bearing trouble.

Be cautious of signs of too much beach work as older Patrols will have rust. Check under the floor mats, around the door hinges, shock mounts and firewall. Patrols that have had a lot of bush work will rattle a lot but it's generally only annoying. The big wheel on the back can stress the door and cause it to sag.

We have generally found the GQ Patrol to be one of the most reliable and trustworthy of the older 4x4s. The engines might be agricultural by today's standards but they are strong.

The gearboxes and transfer cases are similarly tough as is the suspension with the exception of the dampers, which should have already been replaced. A well-cared-for GQ should last for in excess of 250,000km with ease.


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Article written by: CarPoint
Got an opinion on this article? Send it to this email: editor@carpoint.com.au

[BenDover]

Cruiser 4.5 straight 6, awsome motor, great power and tough as... Maybe a bit thirsty though for towing, but thats what you get with performance. I just got rid of my cruiser and got a 42td patrol ute. Gutless as... even with 12 psi of boost, and best offer is liquid toair intercooler, mandrell bent 3 inch exhaust and open up the waistgate = upto 30 percent more power. And that still wont be enough.

So in my opinion its the cruiser 6 or do what ive done and go the injected V8 in the patrol.
And if your after a wagon and towing alot, go for polyairs in the rear much more stable and stronger.

[seatime]

Thanks blokes,

I do like Patrols, they drive nice, like a car, and the barn doors are great. My old man had a GQ diesel, could climb a telegraph pole. I've also had a HJ60 petrol and Series 2 Landy before, both were great on the beach, didn't do heavy towing then though.
I need a change and would like an 8 seater and the Cruisers I've been in drive nice too, very impressed with the V8, but haven't towed with one. I drive a colleague's 80 Series 6cyl auto towing 1300kg and it handles it no probs.
The 100 Series, under 5yrs old looks the goods, and there's tax and expenses to consider. Probably need beefing up at the rear and some other after market add-ons for possible Fraser towing trip on holidays
My Patrol is getting too old to have any real tax advantage as well, or so the accountant says, might need another accountant.
100 series Cruisers are very popular, and I would hope to pick up an ex-Mum's taxi in good nick ??? except for carpark dings

thanks for the search Chimo, I owe you one.

regards
Steve

[Chimo]

Hi Steve

It raining and its warmer inside, don't know if this has any possibilities can't see the front?

http://www.gc4wd.com.au/cars-wrecker.asp?id=212#

Cheers

Chimo

[finding_time]

Gelsec

Towing on the beach is less about absolute power and more about driving technique , tyre pressure and type, ground clearance of both truck and trailer and attitude. On a recent trip to Fraser i felt my 4.2 patrol well and truely out performed my mates V8 landcruiser , reasons, well my tyres were the right pressure and a more aggresive tread , my vehicle has a lifted suspension so in the soft sand i was not sitting the vehicle on it spare tyre and i really attacked the soft sections rather than adopt a softly softly approach . Oh yes the front and rear lockers were also very very helpful

Ian


I think your 2.8 would be fine towing 1500kg as long as you got the fundamentals right

[sempre]

I have to agree with you Ian , its all about set up and attitude .

I hope those lockers were Detriots

[seatime]

Ian

Majority of time I'll be on bitumen towing to and from ramps, from the sunny coast to the gold coast and locals in between, on a weekly basis.
The only towing and launching on the beach will be annual Fraser trips, fingers crossed.
I lived on Straddie for many years, and visit relatives regularly, it doesn't have the dunes of Fraser, but I'm familiar with beach driving.
My landy tyre pressure wasn't above 15psi hardly ever, the HR Holden 20-25psi, only time I had the HR bogged was trying to leave the track for another vehicle when coming out of Blue Lake. I often drove from Amity to Pt Lookout and back by beach in the HR. Lots of locals used cars in those days for beach work. Never had the Landy bogged. Been awfully close, but haven't had the Patrol bogged yet in 6 yrs, on regular Straddie trips that is. Wouldn't trust it towing on the beach however. I don't even like it pulling a 1t boat up the ramp, 4wd or drop the clutch, yuck.

The Cruiser 6cyl auto with lockers, and some extra beef in the rear end sounds good so far. Might loose the spare and add gas, when the gas buying frenzy dies down.

cheers for the tips

regards
Steve.

[Pitsta]

Hi Steve . I've got a few mates at 4x4x more . If you like i'll give them a call . Also my bro inlaw bought a v8 cruiser , pull the bend out of a creek & not bad on fuel alot better than the straight 6 !!!

Mark

[seatime]

Pitsta

might take you up on that, it'll be a few months yet, you know xmas and everything else that seems to drain the pockets in the silly season.

I'd prefer to unload the Patrol while it's still good.

New boat has 4st, so rather petrol 4x too, those dark winter mornings, hate to put diesel in the Jonno and ulp in the Patrol.

cheers

[_Dan_]

Hi Steve,

I have recently purchased a 100 series with the petrol 4.5, mine is a manual and the torque and pulling power is excellent. I would agree its a little on the thirsty side, but its 2 tonne of truck its pulling. There reputation is second to none and when you get in and drive them you will know what i mean.

My uncle has the petrol V8 Sahara and although very nice and etc, its still very thirsty.

Landcruisers speak for themselves, i was looking at patrols and cruisers and everyone i spoke to said the same thing..

When i asked about why the cruiser was dearer? the response was because they are better cars.

I am not biased in anyway. That was what i was told by anyone in the know i spoke too..

Cheers

Dan

[ozscott]

Mate if you want a bloke who really knows his trade call Peter at Redlands 4WD Centre at Capalaba.