Found this. The main page lists a lot of different scenarios.
http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?id=1786
Found this. The main page lists a lot of different scenarios.
http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?id=1786
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.-- Mark Twain"
Sorry to be picky but Mayday is not the correct answer. The correct radio call is 'Pan Pan, Pan Pan, Pan Pan" - this is the urgency call and is used in cases of medical emergency. Mayday can only be used if the vessell is in imminent and dire danger etc. Heavy fines apply for incorrect use of the Mayday call.
I'm surprised TheCommodore from Vicky Pt VMR didn't comment on this??
Jeremy
"The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
(Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)
Apathy is the enemy
I've had two "devil's warnings" previously but thankfully, none in the last 4 yrs. On both occasions the pain was excruciating and on the first occasion I collapsed in a shopping centre......(always knew that I'd pull a crowd one day) :-)
Luckily my deckie works in a cardio-thoracic transplant unit and knew exactly what was happening.
There's not a lot the layman can do if the patient is conscious other than get 'em to hospital as quickly as poss and reassure and comfort them.
There are a number of problems that can present as a heart/angina attack the commonest being "reflux". Anginin administered as a tablet or spray under the tongue relieves the pain almost instantly and I carried it for a number of years. Unfortunately it has a short "sell by date" and you have to make sure that it is "fresh" and that you get repeat prescriptions. It isn't readily available to be placed in first aid boxes of commercial enterprises such as Charters, Airlines etc, as has been mentioned, the danger of litigation for wrongful adminstration is a possibility. I think that's a shame 'cause it could save thousands of lives yearly. It also (strangely) relieves the pain from the other problems that present as heart problems so relief from pain via this "heart medicine" does not neccessarily indicate heart problems.
If someone is a "high risk factor" or has had previous problems a GP may prescribe a few "cautionary tablets" if that person is going to be beyond the "acceptable" reach of normal medical services or is subjected to high stress levels......I suppose crossing a bar in a boat may qualify :-)
........and yeah Jeremy..........Pan Pan Pan is the way to go, not Mayday.
cheers
kev
Phillip
As far as I know, no one has been sued in Australia for a good samaritan act. The only place litigation comes into play in this case is if the person tries to do something that they havent' been properly trained in doing (try to improvise a chest drain).
In this scenario, do all DRABC, make radio call (don't know which one), if need commence CPR and EAR, keep doing CPR and EAR until help arrives.
I heard of a guy off townsville that was out at the reef, a guy had a heart attack. ONe of his mates did CPR for 45mins while the boat raced back to the wharf. ANyone who has done CPR (either real or first aid course) woudl realise that after 5 mins, most people are ROOTED! Just goes to show how good adrenalin is!
Dan [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
Southwind SF20 'Piscatoreous'
Savage 14ft tinny "About Time'
Not correct. If you have been trained in first aid and hold a current Senior First Aid certificate and do everything by the book then you are fine.basically if you go to help someone and they get worse of then they can sue you or have you charged.
In a case were if you did nothing and the person would have died then they could not sue you for assisting them, because if you did nothing they would be dead.
I would suggest that everyone, even if you don't own a boat or go on one, do a Senior First Aid Course. This could come in handy around home with the family, not just while you are fishing.
You can do a course with St Johns, QLD Ambulance or Red Cross and costs about $130.00
As Dan said, DRABC, make a call either radio or 000 and then do CPR and/or EAR.
D - Danger (For yourself and the person)
R - Response (COWS - Can you hear me, Open your eyes, Whats your name, Squeeze my hand)
A - Airway
B - Breathing
C - Circulation
I think that if you do nothing due to the fact that you might get sued then you are in great danger of getting done for doing nothing, ie manslaughter charges. You can't just watch someone die and say that you were afraid of getting sued.... I think... but I'm no lawyer. If you do have a lawyer on board I think you start by chucking him over.
Just a note on the Epirp, I'd heard that they were about as accurate as ...as ... heck can't think of anything but in other words + or - 10 to 20Kms. Can anyone confirm the actual accuracy of the Epirb as I would just not bother and just give them a GPS co-ordinate (just after easing off my favourite mark).
Don't take the bugger out next time ??? ???
no seriously ...all u can do is call in assistance and run with the DRABC ...( and i would flick the EPIRB on )
should have told him to start coughing before he dropped ..
little tip for those of you who feel a heart attack coming on ...START COUGHING !!!! the pressure from each cough will push blood through your heart ...the usual case of holding your breath trying to eleviate the pain will just KO you and thats when the heart stops !
coughing continously will keep the blood circulating and could give you those extra vital minutes . . i have been told in the case of a minor heart attack that purely coughing alone can keep you on your feet another 10 minutes or more
burley boy , on the epirb , depends of the model ...mine is just an old anolouge , which can put them around 6km of my position .,....believe the new digital wil lposition you to well within 500 metres ??? soon to be mandatory !( 2007 ? )
Sorry Billo, that's an old wive's tale. The pain is caused by lack of oxygen (carried by the blood) to the heart muscle. The body's natural defence is to have you gasp for air, a characteristic of heart attacks. Coughing leads to expulsion of air (prematurely), restriction of the chest cavity, prevention of the natural breathing process and subsequently lower oxygen usage by the blood, and all this is likely to exacerbate the situation.Originally Posted by Billo
cheers
kev
Hey Guys,
The posts about the sueing thing are right. As long as you are qualified, and do what you were trained and nothing else, you will never be sued. Cant be worring about this sort of stuff, whats the world coming too.
Just do the DRABC and get help urgently (who cares what call you make - they wont care, and you wont be fined!)
The EPIRBS are great, far more accurate than you guys have quoted, but the beauty of them is that the helicopter can get the accuracy, not the base station. The Helicopter will pick up the exact location upon flying anywhere near it.
Regards
Darren
My VHF radio is connected to the GPS. I believe, (don't intend trying it) I lift the protection flap on the radio and press the "Distress" button, it transmits my position to whoever on channel 16!
oscar
amputate at the chest
Gidday Jeremy, you arent quite right.
Straight from the AMC handbook.
Page 29
Section 11 Distress communications. (Distress = Mayday)
53 Definition and priority of distress
53.1 A distress call has absolute priority over all other transmissions and indicates that the vessel OR THE PERSON using it is threatened by grave and immenent danger and requests immediate assistance.
Section 12. Urgency and safety signals. (Urgency = Pan Pan)
67.2 Use of the safety signal (and message), indicates that the station sending it has a VERY URGENT message to transmit concerning the safety of a vessel, aircraft or person.
This subject is always very messy... write or wrong, do what you think is best. You wont be prosecuted unless you make a false or misleading call intentionally... i.e you new it was gonna cause a ruckus needlesly!!!!!
2 scenarios.
your mate is on the boat with you... he complainds of chest pain... he tells you he suffers from angina, slips a pill under his tongue but you and or he are concerned about the possible outcome if his condition worsens WITHOUT assistance.... MAKE THE PAN PAN....
Scenario 2... your mate drops to the floor of the boat... he isnt breathing... you cant find a pulse..... Make the MAYDAY!!!!!! Begin CPR.... think what you are gonna tell his wife and kids.. prepare for extreme exaustion.... I am not sure of the actual figures but it is something like only 26% of resucitations are succesfull if begun in the first 3 minutes... thats STILL 26 people in 100... well worth the effort if you can keep it up.... expect NO PROFFESSIONAL HELP even locally for an hour on water... Last year, top ofMorton, 3 young people performed CPR on their dad for 1 hour 25 minutes before VKR finaly succesfully organised PROFFESSIONAL medical help..... Many panicked radio calls from those poor exausted kids on the boat... Needless to say, the outcome was not what was hoped for... ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE for them, and also those listening to a lesser extent.... Frankly I felt bloody sick....
Another scenario
Engine broken down, wind blowing boat on to S/W rocks in MB... No anchor, (not uncomon)... night time... middle of the week.... You feel you are in grave and emenant danger... this is either the boat will sink, or you are likely to drown before help may arrive... MAYDAY
Engine broken down, wind blowing boat on to S/W rocks in MB... No anchor, (not uncomon) Day time, weekend when their are plenty of boats about... Pan Pan if you really must.... but normally you would use routine comunications with VMR/Coastguard...
AT ANY TIME YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR CALL... Upgrade it.. or downgrade it.... You may be asked by the Rescue unit, would you like to change the priority of that call... (Brave move from them if you do and something goes wrong).... at the end of the day.. THE VESSEL IN DISTRESS controls comunications either till they cant, or they hand over that responsibility....
Two identical events... but in different locals can result in two or 3 entirely different calls..
Break down in the bay, Routine, breakdown 100nm to sea, possibly Pan Pan, break down 100nm to sea, storm coming, possibly Mayday. YOUR CHOICE
Hope this helps
Sueing for qualified first aiders... can be a rock and a hard place....
We had a member at the unit who was an X Gold Coast SLSC member...
He was prosecuted BECAUSE he was a current first aider on patrol when they had a drowning.... rightly or wrongly... he performed the wrong compression ratio.... at least he did something.... unfortunately a news crew was on the scene and filmed him doing it... the bloke could not be rescucitated... and remained deceased....
Leagal beagles got a court order for the footage... used it as a basis for a successful prosecution.... Dave had a nervous breakdown... he already felt bad enough anyway... either got kicked out of SLSC or resigned not sure wich... didnt like to talk about it much... (Not surprisingly)....
You may recall an instance on the Coast last year when SLSC members performed a barricade to STOP NEWS CREWS FILMING a resus and the news got cranky about it... WONDER WHY!!!!!!
This 18 year old was a nice young bloke, couldnt handle the pressure and gave VMR away... he was very good in a boat and was the helmsmen on VP2 when they dragged the 22 people of "Dreamtime" as she was going down and breaking up on at the bottom of Morton a couple of years back....
Vollunteering.... IT ISNT WHAT IT SHOULD BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey guys thanks for clearing me up on the sueing of trying to help someone. good to hear it isn;t as bad as i thought. after reading some of these posts i think i will go and do a senior first aid course never know when something can go wrong.
thanks again
cheers philip
Bring on the Marlin!!!
Lawyers & opportunists
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