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Say what you like about Sir Joh, but I think the average Queensland Joe Blow was better off in those days compared to now.
Thanks Dug
Looks like I’m not the only person left out in the wilderness
Ps don’t mention Sir Joh they will hang you, I’m 48 and have a good memory getting arrested in the early eighties a small non violent protest in Queensland Australia “not bloody China” set my political direction at a young age so some thing good did come out of it “I think’
Cheers Steve
Say what you like about Sir Joh, but I think the average Queensland Joe Blow was better off in those days compared to now.
The average Joe Blow was better off in Joh's time because Australia had one of the strongest local economies in the world. Australia made nearly every product it needed and because of that it had full employment. You can not compare political parties then with political parties now. Labour is now what was Liberal, Liberal is now neo-conservative, every thing has moved to the right with an accompanying distibution of wealth. The average Joe Blow now has more material possessions but also has more debt, a long slump in the global market will see most of those possessions dissapear but the debt will still remain. Yes the average Joe Bow was better off because they had more dissposible income, because all parties put the country first before international capitalism. There was even more fish to catch then.
I was thinking more along the lines of the public hospital system , gambling addicts created by the intoduction of poker machines.
Legalised brothels and higher crime rates caused by more drug addicts on the streets due to a relaxation of court sentences for drug related crimes etc.
And the State economy, didn't the NSW and Vic govs of the time get into huge financial problems.
Originally Posted by SeaHunt
Maybe if Glug goes back to the 50 and & 60s and days of Menzies picket fences, Joh might have has an advantage. All that broke down with Whitlam and his overspending, massive wages blowout (unemployment cycle stated in the early 70s), severe inflation. Also the sudden arrival of credit cards in the early 70s helped the rot.
As for losing manufaturing jobs, Keating in the 80s wanted to move dull manufacturing jobs offshore (clothing, textiles etc). Keating deregulated the banks which lead to lending boom, inflation and crap conditions.
Through this Joh ran a balanced budget. Qld had lower services but they didn't have $30-60 billion dollar debts from overspending, the state bank didn't crash.
Some good graphs showing what was happening when.
http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/110/PDF/round3.pdf
Funny how history is in the past. Each leader will make decisions on advice for the good of the people that elected them. If you are elected for the fourth term when all state govs are the oposition, then it might be something more then luck
And if you vote on the weight of a four week publicity stunt then the result fits the attitude. Cheers and enjoy life!
Lordy going back to the who was right and who was wrong in the labour wars of the 50 & 60s just brings up bad feelings in a lot of people on both sides of the picket fence. But you must agree high wages encourages more inovation and automation resulting in higher profits, if you get the balance right. It is bloody mindedness on both sides on both sides that causes problems.
You missed out on the effect of loss of exports through England joining the common market being a factor in the 70's and that the Fraser government also encourage moving businesses off shore before Keating continued the stupidity. And this new age economic stupidity is still continuing under Howard who wants all Internet services to go to India. A strong local economy is gained by keeping jobs not giving them away. Only companies who operate globaly gain from following cheap labour, small and medium sized companies only get gobbled up in the process.
It does, it also creates jobs if you can keep these top brains here. Some of the Greens policies seem designed to chase away these people.
You missed out on the effect of loss of exports through England joining the common market being a factor in the 70's and that the Fraser government also encourage moving businesses off shore before Keating continued the stupidity. And this new age economic stupidity is still continuing under Howard who wants all Internet services to go to India. A strong local economy is gained by keeping jobs not giving them away. Only companies who operate globaly gain from following cheap labour, small and medium sized companies only get gobbled up in the process.
The thing I love about the extreme of politics is that the far left are often closer on many policies to the far right than than the middle. You go far to the right you get One Nation, you go far to the left you get the Greens: guess what they both have the same ecomonic protectionist polices. Greens and ON allies, who'd have thunk it. Hilter was actually a vegetarian, a greenie, an animal liberationist and into gun control, increased state contol of corporations, hmmm sounds like Bob Brown's policy (not that Brown is into whacking jews & homosexual or invading countries). Facism arguable just a form of right wing socialism. Part of the reason for invading lost of countries was to secure their natural resources allowing Hitler to control a self sustaining state, with extreme protectionist policies.
Some of Bob Brown's policies goals seem rather naive or stupid. I wonder how many people who vote Green actually know what they are voting for.
"1.2 A national plan must be developed for early childhood education by the Commonwealth Government in partnership with the states and territories, and relevant stakeholders such as the Australian Education Union."
They also get "increased remuneration", "an immediate increase in the award rate for childcare workers, the phasing in of much larger increases " and "less work".
"2.4 end the incursion of corporate and profit-driven providers"
"2.18 exploration of funding and regulatory mechanisms to stop the growth of corporate and for-profit providers of childcare, including increased funding of not-for-profit and community-based childcare services."
His education policy must have been written by the Teachers union. Obviously the union doesn't want competition and wants a pay rise.
"teachers’ and other educators’ salaries can be restored to a level that attracts committed and capable people into the teaching profession"
Is Brown suggesting that public teachers aren't capable or committed?
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"Reduced working hours without loss of pay or conditions" (straight from the greens policy doc).
How are companies supposed to remain viable when the people do less work for more pay? Or does Bob mean we get the same money and do 25% less hours (which results in 25% inflationary and net loss in real wage power).?
"3.14 legislate to protect outworkers by: deeming them to be employees, enabling them to recover money upwards through the contracting chain beyond the person who gives them work, and creating a regulatory scheme requiring retailers and manufacturers to register, maintain records and provide lists of where work is sent"
Eek, what a nightmare of paperwork. Does that mean if pay a fencing contractor to build my fence and he goes broke that I now have to pay his employees as well? Or the the contractor sub-contracts and sub-contractor goes broke, then contractor has to pay, and if he can't then I do?
"3.2 abolish Australian workplace agreements and non-union collective agreements, and encourage the making of multi-employer agreements"
Abolish non-union collective agreements? That sucks if you negotiated with your boss and everyone got a deal they liked.
"3.3 legislate to require that employers recognise and negotiate in good faith with the relevant unions, and to allow unions access to all relevant workplaces"
Legislate that employers must negotiate in "good faith" but unions don't have to?
"7 ensure the adoption of targets for the average fuel efficiency of new additions to the national car fleet of 5.0 litres per 100 km by 2010'
No big 4wds. But then again you won't be able to afford to drive one anway because they will increase taxes on private travel until you have to take public transport (mandatory state owned of course). If you live at Ipswich get fit now because they intend to "increase the proportion of bicycle trips to 20% by 2010".
Their ecomonic policy is "interesting".
"2.3.5 restore full employment in Australia, including the direct provision of suitable employment by the government and the use of targeted labour market schemes"
The ecomonic policy looks like half of its been ripped from a 1930s Nazi policy paper. State to maintain or reaquire monopolies, lock down interest rates, unfloat the dollar, xenphobic foreign ownership laws, protectionist self-reliance, large government deficits (funded locally, somehow). Large wage rises for everyone and less work for new wage, yet its not going to lead to inflation (maybe the figure the much large taxes will take care of that extra bit
How is he planning on funding this spending spree
"3.1.5 reduces taxes on labour and increases taxes on resource use and pollution"
Lower taxes for the rich and greater taxes on usage. Doesn't that adversely affect the poor? Pay $150 for a tank fuel is going to hurt someone on $500 ($350 to spend) a week more than it hurts someone on $2000 ($1850 to spend) a week. This seems in direct contradiction to many of Bob other stated goals (wealth redistribution, ie tax the f**k out of anyone making more than $50-75K.
"3.3.8 gradually phase out the GST, by reducing its rate and replacing it with a simpler, more socially and ecologically progressive consumption taxes, including environmental taxes, and by shifting the tax base towards income and wealth taxes.
Phase out 1 tax and introduce 10 or so new taxes to "simplifiy the system"? Then tax the f**k out of everyones PAYE tax. All this while wages are going rampant, inflation is going beserk and the Reserve Bank is increasing interest rates to try and control inflation (as per the Green orders to the RBA).
"3.3.19 move to establish more progressive rates of superannuation taxation"
Don't worry they are also bring back death duties on assest including the family home. Want to move to a retirement home and give child your house? You'd better have a bunch of money to pay the gift tax.
"3.3.2 introduce a greater range of marginal tax rates on a sliding scale, with particular increases for people earning high incomes"
Is it the Green's intention to tax the hell out of anyone scientist smart enough to deserve a big wage. We'll see our best brains taking their free education and moving to the US because the taxes here will be obscene.
"3.3.18 the removal of the Private Health Insurance Rebate with the funds being provided directly to public health care." Same with private education policy.
Kiss private health insurance companies goodbye. We'll see many people back on the public system, the net cost to the goverment will be huge. More taxes I suppose, here they come
"3.3.15 an increase of the Medicare Levy on income"
"3.3.21 restore company tax rates to the level before the 2001–02 reductions (33%)"
Great, more companies moving offshore and shipping the profits OS. I suppose the best brains will have moved there so it only makes sense.
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"3.1.7 maximises regional and national self-reliance in trade
and investment"
ie stop trading with overseas countries. Guess what, they'll stop buying our goods in retaliation as usually happens. So kiss exports goodbye, rural and mining communities will crash, regional centres will follow and the rest of the country goes into a tail spin with it. Don't worry we've got increased and easier dole to collect (more dole collectors, mores taxes, cha-ching).
"3.1.8 assists in the positive redistribution of wealth internationally."
How exactly do we distribute wealth to the poor country that we just stopped trading with? Is Bob planning of taxing us even more and shipping our taxes OS? Or is he just spouting useless PC retoric?
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But if all this is too much for you don't worry you can do yourself in under the "end-of-life decision making" policy (better known as knocking off the old people so the rest of us don't have to pay). You will probably have to do it with an overdoes of echenaca and dandylion due to the Greens new " emphasis on alternatives to medical interventions and pharmaceuticals".
What about paulene just kiddingall this political jibba on a fishing site was making me feel all weird
By the way everything joe touched, spoke , loked at was a sham
Wow; Lordy I could read the Greens garbage so many ways I thought nobody would try to analyse it. Hitler had the edge on them though he was strongly supported by the teachers Bob Brown only wants the effective ones to support him. But pleasing every one was one of Hitlers winning ways. Your right though extreemism right or left only seeks to control and restricts freedom and growth. At the extreem all policical ideologies become nothing more than dictatorships the problem is none are benevolent or humanist.
Cheers that was a good try
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