Fish farms - hazardous to wild fish

[Kerry]

That's ok boxhead, at least you don't have to read between my lines like some well concocted PR ramble with double takes, double meanings, deliberation of intentions.

Yeah boxhead some of the factual input is very cleverly done

Cheers, Kerry.

[PinHead]

Leo, For someone "associated" with the industry, that has an "interest" in the industry and comments that are generally "from within the industry" and would probably rely on funding from the industry for "research" etc your comments could tend to be seen as very one sided, but about par for the course, considering.

It's rather amusing that anybody against some activities are always apparently ....uninformed and incorrect opinions.... funny that, hey.

Cheers, Kerry.

I would be interested to read where your figures come from Kerry..not as an insular figure but an across industry average backed by the name of the author of the paper the information was gleaned from.

[reelcrazy]

Interesting discussion here, but getting a little off track from my original post about fish farms endangering wild fish stocks.

My opinion that fish farms should be banned from all waterways still holds, and since it has been raised, this ban (with a few exceptions) should be extended to those inland as well.

The link to the article clearly shows that the industry has some serious problems that are starting to devastate wild fish populations, and worse, the industry has no solution.

What appals me most is that one of the studies clearly show one fish farm as the vector for dramatic increases of sea lice in local wild fish populations. What is even more surprising is that there was no outcome, other than the usual academic posturing and vested interest inertia. Commonsense say either shut the farm down or force it to scale back operations.

Any form of intensive food cultivation is an environmental disaster, the ongoing quest for greater yields fly in the face of sound environmental and age old husbandry practices.

No argument to the contrary will convince me otherwise. This goes for arguments about environmental safeguards and containment practices, these are simply specious in the face of reality, as a clear illustration of this, look at the history of spills at Ranger, Beverly and Olympic dam uranium mines.

Uranium mining is a supposedly highly regulated and politically sensitive industry - yet all those regulations and sensitivity in practical reality mean nothing, to make regulations work, you need enforcement, to have enforcement you need the political will, and if that is ineffective for an industry as politically sensitive as the uranium industry, you can guarantee it will be even more so for the aquaculture industry.

If the aquaculture industry is allowed to flourish, without question, it will be an environmental disaster, made worse by the fact that did not have to happen. - We are seeing the impact of mature acquaculture overseas, do we really have to make the same mistake?

Let the industry be still born I say, it isn't worth the risk.

[Kerry]

Pinhead,

Figures are just that, Figures and one can make what ever figure one requires ans some are very good at doing that especially industry funded research, whatever figure you want is the figure you'll get. Independence is the key word and many so figures would know what independence was.

You see justification of all this type of activity really doesn't have anything to support all the wonderful claims

Reelcrazy makes some good points

....the industry has no solution....

but yet it tries to basically bully it's presence in an almost condescending manner with the predictable

.... usual academic posturing and vested interest inertia....

[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

....We are seeing the impact of mature acquaculture overseas, do we really have to make the same mistake?....

here here Yet for some strange reason things are supposed to be different here yet in many cases it's basically the same companies thrown out of overseas countries moving to do more of the same, based on the same principles and based on selective critera, their own selective criteria.

So as far as harming wild fish population (and heaven help us if the stupidity of growing carp comes up again) and as witnessed by the pilchard debacle all one gets is excuses, no solutions just excuses. Well the industry has some major major hurdles to get over and no amount of the typical industry rhetoric and smoke screens cut it.


Cheers, Kerry.

[PinHead]

"Well how about the fact that in general it takes something like 2-3kg of feed (fishmeal etc) to "grow" 1 (yes that is one) kg of farmed product and in some cases it can be much more at around 5kg plus.

Now if 1kg of meal could grow 2 kg of product then wow that would be something but that simply doesn't happen and to suggest otherwise is pure and simply PR BS.

Now logic says it doesn't make much sense to feed 2-5kg of protien to produce 1kg of farmed product and many people simply prefer to ignore this fact."

"Figures are just that, Figures and one can make what ever figure one requires ans some are very good at doing that "

So where did your figures come from or are you just making some figures thay you require???

[Heath]

So where did you get the figures from Kerry?

[jaybee]

I'm against Fish Farms in the natural environment, however i beleive rasing and releasing fingerlings could be a sustainable propersition without too much impact on nature.? who knows? however having said that Pinhead

in general it takes something like 2-3kg of feed (fishmeal etc) to "grow" 1 (yes that is one) kg of farmed product

yep don't make sense to me but then nor does this which has been going on longer. A broiler chicken needs 2.2 kilograms of feed grain per kilo of live weight gain. For pork it is four kilos and for beef seven kilos. This means that animals have become major competitors with humans for grains, leading to higher grain prices and denying the hungry access to cheap food.
Source: http://agitprop.org.au/lefthistory/1...population.php actually the last paragraph is interesting reading. No I am not a marxist but have an interest in the Social Sciences.
cheers
Joe.

[Kerry]

Well just for Heath's doubting benefit AMCS actually state between 2-12 Kg of fishmeal to produce one kilogram of farmed fish or prawns, depending on the species. So 2-3 up to 5kg is fairly middle of the road, wouldn't you think as overstating things generally brings out the doubting tommies.

Now Heath if you really want to take that further you should ask the AMCS as they obviously have enough balls to put those figures down in print.

The other interesting thing is the source of some brood stock, wild brood stock that is and if this is the case then it certainly adds to the already suspect over promotion and underestimation (depends on which side of the fence one is) of some fishing practices and statistics.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Derek Bullock]

Not entering the arguement but below is an extract from PETA. Just thought we should be fighting them not each other

Fish Farms: Underwater Factories

"Conditions on aquafarms are so horrendous that on some farms, 40 percent of the fish may die before farmers can kill and package them for food."

Fish farming, or “aquaculture,” has become a billion-dollar industry, and more than 30 percent of all the sea animals consumed each year are now raised on these “farms.” The United Nations’ Food and Agriculture Organization reports that the aquaculture industry is growing three times faster than land-based animal agriculture, and fish farms will surely become even more prevalent as our natural fisheries become exhausted.

Aquafarms can be based on land or in the ocean. Land-based farms raise thousands of fish in ponds, pools, or concrete tanks. Ocean-based aquafarms are situated close to shorelines, and fish in these farms are packed into net or mesh cages. All fish farms are rife with pollution, disease, and suffering, regardless of their location.

"We don't take what Mother Nature throws at us. This is a factory for fish." — Bill Evans, Vice President of Mariculture Systems, Inc., Salmon-farming company

Aquafarms squander resources—it can take 5 pounds of wild-caught fish to produce just 1 pound of farmed fish—and pollute the environment with tons of fish feces, antibiotic-laden fish feed, and diseased fish carcasses.

Fish on aquafarms spend their entire lives in cramped, filthy enclosures, and many suffer from parasitic infections, diseases, and debilitating injuries. Conditions on some farms are so horrendous that 40 percent of the fish may die before farmers can kill and package them for food. In short, fish farms bring suffering and ecological devastation everywhere they go.

[Heath]

Kerry,

One wouldn't ask a question unless it was for ones benifit would one.

Talk about stating the obvious.

[Kerry]

Well Heath, somedays the circling wolves tend to sound obviously the same, all trying for a bite, you know what I mean I'm sure.

So what now you going to comment on that figure?

12kg ??? (to me) does sound high but obviously one wouldn't think they would publish numbers for the industry to shot holes in their credibility. Similar with the industry numbers as one would have to suspect those to be "engineered" as low as possible but like all numbers not really show the real useage.

One might assume somewhere in the middle of both camps is possibly where the real usuage lies as in traditional fashion the number one wants is the number one can generally derive.

The wording at times can give hints to credibility of some numbers in conjunction with their source.


Cheers, Kerry.