Fish Species not shared between countries - why?

[bigmack]

Ok Guys - here is a really interesting question for you.

I lived in NZ for nine years and fished for Snapper & Kingfish up in Frenchs Pass, Salmon and Trout around Christchurch etc.

Australia and New Zealand have these species in common - Snapper, Kingfish, Morwong, Bluefin, Yellowfin, Mullet, Garfish, kahwai/Australian Salmon, Blackfish in the North Island (and they are huge because no one fishes for them) Hapuku/Groper, Gurnard, Trevally

but here is the interesting bit ........... No Tailor? Why? when they have them in Sth Africa and US i think (is that right - Blufish)
no bream, no flathead and no whiting.

Any experts like to have a shot at this - would it be to do with evolution and the exact time that NZ got split off from the Great Land, Gondwana.

thanks

[Mick]

Maybe they don't want to live in NZ...

[rando]

Interesting question!!I dont know the answer & may I add to it? Have you heard of tailor in the pacific Islands? Norfolk,Lord Howe, The Cook Is???

[bigmack]

he he he - yes the second answer was good. I dont know about Lord Howe etc. I just thought it was really weird that you would find blackfish which in my opinion is kind of close to bream in shared habitat/ estuary and rock situations and the commonality of salmon and kingies and snapper and then the gaps.

On the blackfish - NZ call them parore and they hang around the wharves and pylons in the Bay of Islands - they are rated as a crap fish over there and man they are big.

anyone got any marine biolgist or evolutionary scientist friends that could answer!

[2iar]

I reckon they do have them , it's just that they're known as "fush", ay.



Good luck,
Mike

PS - Never thought *I'd* be the one to take the piss out of accents on Ausfish

[Duyz72]

Black fish rated so low? How? Maybe they tuffen up when they get so big? They must be big! Every one I have eaten is sooooooooooo tasty!

[rando]

Mick
they must have seen what happens to the sheep

[gropeher]

Kaiwhai is not Salmon, The NZ kaiwhai is Tailor!
Now I miss a good gurnard, please tell me where you are catching gurnard in Australia, I have never heard of it being over here, are you sure?.

Ryan..

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Water temperatures, current direction and strength and the like. I really don't think that it is rocket science. You could ask the same questions about the different races on Earth.

Cheers
Dave

[philip_thomson]

i heard that the snapper in NZ are different to the Snapper in Australia. that the NZ snapper don;t get knobs on there heads?

is this just a story or is it true?

[raefpud]

They got some big ass bream here in Japan - got several names for them too

[gropeher]

Unlucky Phil,
Trust me mate, that story is bullshit, the snapper have knobs there too, I saw that post here a month or so back and stated that then, the snapper here are ezacery the same there.

[DICER]

They call bream over here in the Netherlands, Dorado. The head profile of Dorado is however slightly different, but they taste the same. We also get snapper-like fish from the red sea and mediterranean. Tomorrow I go fishing for zeebaars (a type of sea bass) - and the equivalent of tailor to some degree (not species wise but in the way the dominate, sight feed and migrate), though they are much yummier and oily.

Some of the reasons why you have fish species in one place but not another is largely due to:- 1) geographical isolation (land masses, currents, dependencies on bait species, reproductive areas and migratory reasons. Geographical isolation can also occur because of competition for resources anywhere in the food chain)
2) breeding isolation (sometime you'll find very similar species, isolated by various mechanisms, over a long period of time will eventually not interbreed - hence you observe what appear to be almost the same species but they can not or will not breed further)

One example - a cicada species in the united states has become isolated by hatching slightly earlier than its counter part cicadas. Because it takes ~15 years for this insect to go from juvenile to adult, and it is such a short period of time in which they breed, it was relatively quick for them to speciate apart and alter course of development. Perhaps tailor can interbreed between various locations around the world, but I believe you would have to test this first. Only after breeding (and genetic examination) could you say that they were the same species.

Cichlids fish species is an excellent model of speciation. Over 500 different species and sub-species in a short period of time.

I guess though (as I am not a fish evolutionary biologist expert) that some species of fish either migrated in the past (like between NZ and Aust) and did not under go further rapid speciation - jew, tailor etc. Some others did, and others remained panmictic or global (bream, tuna, mackerel etc)

[scatter1]

the new zealand kahawai is the australian salmon

sam

[gropeher]

Scatter 1,
Sorry mate your wrong, unless the DVD I got here explaining fish species around the world, common to differing nations, however with differing names is incorrect, and unless all the kawhai I caught and ate back home were not kawhai.
I know a kawhai and I know a tailor when I see and catch it and I know they both taste the same, caught heaps over the years.

Cheers..