Police charge Boat driver with Neg ,

[westie]

Derek.... Here it says the boat was swamped.

"Mr Winchester and his two sons - Ronin, 5, and Jesse, 2 - were rescued by the Water Police off Margate when 2m waves swamped his 4.5m tinnie early last Thursday morning."

Then it goes on to say they slept through the ordeal, was it a case of the spray from the waves meant he had SOME water in the boat, a big difference from being SWAMPED. BUT swamped sound better in the media and headlines.

"The two boys were wet but unharmed and Mr Winchester said they had slept through the ordeal and had only been woken up by the noise of the rescue helicopter. "

If the sea were as BOM said, and they cover there ar?e by stating winds COULD be upto 40% stronger, he may have had spare fuel when he got home WHO KNOWS.

If it was bad enough I would just keep the boat nosed into the swells as a last resort, this may save it from broaching and rolling over if he tried to go with it, maybe this is what he was doing, and waiting for the Squall to pass by, and in tern using his fuel up to just survive.?????????????????????????????????????????? ???????? So many Questions and Possibilities

Contact Your local VMR and see what % of rescues are for running out of fuel it would be a major contributor along with flat Batteries and quite often motor problems just after being serviced.

It seem we have some out there that want this guy to get the full hand of the law.

this guy if charged with these offences may have strick rights to have his kids and they may have there rights removed from doing what they love to do when they go out with dad. I am not in a situation of a bad split up but I am sick and tired of people using kids to gain full access to them.

He had them for the weekend and they had an experience with there dad.

If they were with there mum and had a car accident would she be dragged through the mill and fined for the wrong restraints or unroadworthy vehicle.

It was an UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT with a great result.

[Derek_Bullock]

this guy if charged with these offences may have strick rights to have his kids and they may have there rights removed from doing what they love to do when they go out with dad. I am not in a situation of a bad split up but I am sick and tired of people using kids to gain full access to them

Westie

Where did that come from?


Derek

[shaman]

Been caught out there in a 4.5 f/glass between Amity and Vic. Pt. Glass on the way over in the morning took 25 mins. blew up half way back got pretty scary and i've had pwr boats since I was 8 yrs old. Return trip took 1 1/2 hrs and i ended up with a lacerated hand and only an old hanky to bandage it. Took on way too much water and actually put my lifejacket on . Took solace in the fact that I was on my own and wasn't responsible for anyone else but now I've got two boys and i'm damn sure I wouldn't expose them to this danger especially low on fuel from Moreton to anywhere. Anyone thought of how scared these 2 little kids were. I'll bet they won't be getting in a boat for awhile. Anyway fine or no fine I bet his ex gave him plenty. Thankfully no one was PHYSICALLY injured.

[subzero]

Water Police do NOT NORMALLY issue infringement notices to people who run out of fuel. Rescue Groups in the Bay get activated probably 10 times each and every weekend, (often activated by the Police themselves), for those who do run out of fuel, and the Police do not even consider prosecuting them.
I have communicated with the Police on Rescues as many as 100 times either through the Base or on the Rescue Vessel and in all cases the Police's view to date has been, fix them up, set them straight and send them on their way.. over and done with... However, if a person has done something particually foolish that involves others then look out, they will charge you with whatever they can, and so they should!!!

Lets look at some comments made here and in another post on the site
He is supposedly a past Trawler Skipper.
Hells teeth, if this really is the case, he should know better than anyone how to equip a vessel, how to determine weather and sea conditions, not to risk his vessel, crew or passengers, when to let of his flares, how to determine what life jackets to purchase, anticipated fuel usage within reason, how to activate an epirb, and how to establish radio communications.

• If he is a Trawler Skipper, I hope they take his ticket off him because the man is a menace to himself and others
• Initialy, it was reported that he had not checked conditions before departing for the return journey, then he reported otherwise the next day once he had time to think about it. Yet several people on here looked at the forecast, looked at the conditions and said bugga that and stayed home, the experienced Trawlerman new better... we all understand that conditions can deteriorate, worsen.. and that BOM frequently get it wrong although they do allow a 40% margin of error to encompass this as it IS NOT AN EXACT SCIENCE, nothing like it... you know it, I know it, but for some reason he didnt!!!
• Initialy it was reported that he had no safety gear apart from a bucket, a mobile phone and the children had new life jackets, the following day it was reported that these life jackets were ill fitting, and he was given some bad advice from the salesman... remember this is supposedly a man who has been fishing all his life and was supposedly a ticketed proffessional Trawlerman that doesnt even know how to buy the correct fitting life jackets???
• The next reports said he had flares, which he let off to attract attention, but no one saw them. If he had been trained as a Trawler Skipper, the flares should not have been used untill it was likely they would be seen, in strong winds, handheld smoke flares will dissipitate very quickly without being seen, he should have been trained and should have known that.
• Supposedly by now, he was well equipped and even had an epirb, tell me why the couldnt find him for an hour, and even then he had to talk them in by text messaging on his mobile as he had no coverage. Even the lesser 121.5/243 epirb in this part of the world detection would have been likely instantaneous. From the air, if he had the flares, and an epirb, the hellicopter would have picked him up almost immediately once arriving on scene, in daylight, even in rough conditions.
• EVERYONE KNOWS, if you are towing, heading up hill, accelerating, decellerating, you use considerably more fuel, on land, not such a great drama... if you run out on the water in bad weather, totally different story, especially when you are responsible for a 2 and a 5 year old are trusting you to look after them... but he couldnt figure out that he was going to possibly run out of fuel... not very smart
• The vessel was initialy reported as a 3.9m tinny, it has now grown to a 4.5m tinny, irrespective of length, their are tinnys and their are tinnys, Skippers and good Skippers... Irrespective of the size of the vessel which looked pretty small to me, the poweplant looked looked like a 15hp Yammy to me... way underpowered for those waters in anything less than ideal conditions for mine.
• It was initialy reported that he had NO navigation equipment and could not assess his location to any degree to enable rescuers to find him. Well done Skipper!!! Even with just a handheld compass the man could have given a heading to the hellicopter once sighted, then they take the recipricol bearing back to him... not hard!!!
• God perish the thought if he had gone over the side, or one of his kids had, he had no way of looking after either one of them let alone himself

Wether the man was spending quality time with his kids or not, it could have been the last time anyone could have seen them alive.

First reports are usually the most accurate, before storys change and get embellished by the offender once he has had time to think better of it
I think it is likely that he broke just about every rule in the book for a responsible adult minding children and a supposedly trained and experienced mariner. The standard that this man set for himself is far less than a totally inexperienced person, hitting the waterways for the first time.
In my time when an active member, I saw many people make mistakes, some do some foolish things, you look at them and think, thats great, I am sure they will learn from that and learn that the Bay or the Sea is a dangerous place if not given the respect it deserves.... This dick_head has never once realy admitted he has done anything wrong, the weathermans fault, the salesmans fault, everyones but his own fault.
We all make mistakes, I have made them, and will make them again, hopefully different ones because we should all learn from our mistakes. The quantity and quality of this mans indescretions, AS A WHOLE, are far beyond what can and should be overlooked, this was a disaster waiting to happen and was avoided more through good fortune than anything else, if the weather had worsened, the consequences would have been certain death for the children if the hellicopter could not fly because of the winds.. absolutely no doubt about it

Thats it from me, I think he is a prize dick_head who has learnt nothing from it, this is my OPINION ONLY and apart from news reports, I have not seen or heard anything more than the rest of you. THE POLICE WOULD NOT PROSECUTE UNLESS HE DID A LOT OF STUPID THINGS AND WAS NOT GOING TO LEARN FROM IT.


Kind Regards and Safe Boating
Lloyd

[Sportfish_5]

Jesus Lloyd - how long did that take to type

[Derek_Bullock]

Well said Lloyd.

Cheers


Derek

[subzero]

When I started, I had a full crop of hair, now I am bald

I am a one finger typest so it took me about 2 hours but I consider this to be a very important discussion, one where I just couldnt bite my tongue any longer.
I may be being unfair, but I doubt it... I hope not anyway... yes, trial by media, guilty untill proven otherwise
Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

Massive storm about to hit us at daisy hill, got to shutdown now
Bye

[Billo]

I was having a big discussion with the relos over christmas ...friends have boats in NSW , old man just bought a boat and needs to observe VIC lisencing ...it's interesting the variations across the state .
I think anyone who goes out under equipped is a bloody mooron ! I am WAY over equipped with safety gear no matter where i am , especially on the bay .

Specualation can be ripe amongst these kinds of incidents , who knows the full truth.
I know one thing for certain , if i had kids in the boat , i would NOT take ANY chances .

If ANYONE heads out taking anyone elses life into danger recklessly , especially dependants , then they should be dealt with .

Luckily this one ended with all safe...i think the charges he could face are a damn sight better then what COULD have happened and he should think himself lucky !!!!

[brentasauros]

yep.. Subzero is correct IMHO.

[martini]

Wow!

This issue has stired a lot of emotion.
I wonder if everyone who has read the comments and debate will go back to their boat and do an audit on their own safety gear? (maybe next week when I have time is usualy the response)
Also will they buy that spare fuel tank or jerry can or a set of spare plugs for the motor. Even a 2nd anchor just in case.

The guy should learn from his stupidity and we from his.

Cheers Noel

[shaman]

Wow!

This issue has stired a lot of emotion.
I wonder if everyone who has read the comments and debate will go back to their boat and do an audit on their own safety gear? (maybe next week when I have time is usualy the response)
Also will they buy that spare fuel tank or jerry can or a set of spare plugs for the motor. Even a 2nd anchor just in case.

The guy should learn from his stupidity and we from his.

Cheers Noel

you got it Noel,
Taking the family across to straddie camping on w/end (weather permitting, doesn't look good) while reading this thread was thinking I should and will check my safety gear before I go!! see the media has it's good points.

[lunar_c]

Rumours, conjecture, second hand information and worst of all - media reports.
I too think this is a very important discussion, because every time I go out I am making a judgment call on the safety of my family.

Based on what we know, I don't think it has been established that he was being reckless.
Sure - he doesn't meet my standard for being informed and prepared, but the bottom line is that when it went pear shaped he did enough to ensure the rescue of his kids.
Surely he is not being charged for something that might have happened?

What are the FACTS?
- what size boat/motor?
- what forecast did he get at what time?
- how long between getting the forecast and departure?
- how much fuel did he have?
- were his kids wearing pfd type 1?
- if so, what defines "appropriate size"? (and don't say manufacturers recommendation)
- did his kids actually fall out of their jackets?

Until we know these things we won't know the right of it.

It's possible that the only fair hearing he will get will be here on Ausfish.
I think we should try to find out what actually happened and exactly why the police charged him.

Ben

[Derek_Bullock]

I think we should try to find out what actually happened and exactly why the police charged him.

This is why the police charged him

Mr Winchester said police charged him with negligence for running out of fuel and on the grounds the children had inappropriate life jackets and that conditions were too rough

1. Negligence for running out of fuel
2. Inappropriate life jackets
3. Conditions were too rough

His own words.


Derek

[Sportfish_5]

How can you be charged because the conditions were too rough ? Gees that is a bit tough Show me the regulations there lmao !

Punished he should be but he should not be used as an example to all others regarding fines etc - theres plenty of idiots on PWCs for that



Cheers

Greg