Major truma first aid.

[Dug]

Quickclot a field clotting agent for first aid of major trauma and bleeding.

Something new that may be of interest especially to anyone doing long trips to remote areas.

http://www.newscientist.com/article....mg18925435.800

some more information here

http://www.bestglide.com/quikclotpage.htm


And the instructions for use it may cause second degree burns bit that is better than bleeding to death.


http://www.bestglide.com/training_procedures.pdf

I would like to have a pack in my first aid kit just incase.

[2rods]

looks interesting.. 2nd degree berns are better than bleeding to death.

But my idea is not to get shot in the first place

Will keep an eye out for it up here, as you say on long trips it might be useful.

2rods

[Dug]

I am allergic to being shot, it brings me out in nasty red spots. [smiley=rifle.gif]

[theoldlegend]

Dug,

You might need some of that yourself if you don't get that precious piece of pottery fixed.

TOL

[WHITTO]

Unfortunately it will not be sold to anyone unless you have been trained in the application of it,and capable of proving you have had the training, I ask the question how difficult is to pour something on an open wound, Cheers Whitto

[onerabbit]

Household pepper is also good in an emergency, cobwebs are famous as an anti -coagulant, .............pepper really works , cant say i've tried the cobwebs though .

Muzz

[scorpion_500]

Household pepper is also good in an emergency, cobwebs are famous as an anti -coagulant, .............pepper really works , cant say i've tried the cobwebs though .

Muzz

Hey Muzz, I've not come across this before... at the risk of asking a dumb question, what do you use the pepper for and in what situations? I've done first-aid certification courses in the past, but never heard of pepper used in first aid before.

Cheers,

- scorpion

[wetaline]

Careful guys, I SAY AGAIN CAREFUL, there's a bit more to some of these things than you might think.

It's a four year degree in medicine, and then you are only a beginner.
(no jokes about a doctor's pracitce please)

Seriously, and I don't mean to offend any one here, I think you are the best bunch of guys around, but judging by the spelling and grammar used herein, some of you guys may not be ready for this stuff yet.

Even if you can lay your hands on it, get accredited first, if you can.

Surely there must be a physician or pharmacist or two on site that can shed some light on this one. Just because you read it on the "net" dosen't mean what you are reading is accurate.

If you are a medical professional, and choose to reply, you might want to register under a ghost name first to avoid any fallout later prior toreplying.

As for pepper, think about it, put a speck in your eye first and see if you think it's such a great idea to be putting it in an open wound. Remember the team in casualty have got to evacuate this stuff from the wound when the patient is presented. Then the doctors have to work with:
a) the original wound
b) the damage done by intervention

If you want to see how good pepper is at soaking up liquid, go pour some on top of a glass of water, that's where it will stay (ask anyone whos'e made a bloody mary and didn't stir it).
The urban myth is based on the fact that pepper (a finely ground, dried herb) will absorb moisture in proportions far exceeding it's initial volume. Because of the oils it contains, this dosen't actually happen readily.
On the other hand try using plain flour, corn flour, arrowroot, agar agar or gelatine and see what happens. These are true vegetable based thickening agents. AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING THEM AS FIRST FIELD ANTICOAGULANTS.

There are many considerations in the field when treating trauma, blood loss is just one. If you are really going to go "Harrisson Ford" I would suggest you do an advanced first aid course, dealing in delivering of injectables, suturing, pain management and the like.

If anyone is truly interested in this area of first aid, message me on this site and I'll see what I can come up with as far as a course is concerned - no promises.

[youngfisho]

wow,

its funny how people come out with new ways of treating the human body. but its really surprising the number of people who dont carry out propper simple first aid measures when someone is sick or injured. having worked in a busy emergency dept as a nurse for the past four years i have witnessed first hand numerous cases of trauma and injury which has been dealt with inappropriatly by either friends or relatives or bystanders. i would frequently encounter trails of blood originating from the car park all the way to the emergency entrance. often this is not through profuse bleeding but the total lack of first aid applied by the individual or group. when some one has a cut or laceration the first measure is to apply direct pressure to the wound. in exceptional circumstances where there is a penetrating injury such as a stick or nail it should be left in place and a bandage or combine placed around the site of trauma. (the stick acts as a plug or tamponade preventing any further bleeding as soon as the stick or nail or object is removed blood loss usually increases.

The most effective way of treating blood loss is to

apply pressure

elevate the limb (if involved)

application of an ice pack proximally to injury (may assist in peripheral vaso constriction to reduce blood flow to area)

however this can have a reversed effect by dropping the core body temperature and cause shivering which increases muscle movement and increases blood flow. use only for short periods at a time ie 10 mins


avoid using a torniquet, unless blood is spirting (arterial blood loss) in which case application of direct pressure will also help in minimising blood loss more than a torniquet.

these are just some simple steps to help reduce bleeding.

I could go on about the treatment of a patient who has been involved in a major trauma but that would involved too much of my time. but what i can say is that the application of that clotting agent in a field situation would do little to stem the flow of blood when a limb is severed or there is internal bleeding. it would also be less advisable putting it in the hands of some one inexperienced as someone else has mentioned.

if travelling to a remote area, make sure someone in the group or everyone has done a first aid course and is accredited in CPR. also carry the appropriate communication devices. if travelling to outback areas a satellite phone may be effective in notifying authorities of your situation or even an epirb.

carry enough first aid supplies to be able to treat everyone in the group.

if anyone has any questions feel free to pm me.

[Dr_Dan]

One thing that I always carry in first aid kit is super glue. Good for bringing wounds together when there are no sutures available. The emergency department uses a wound adhesive (basically the same ingredients as over the counter super glue), but it has a nice purple colour to it (and about a 10 fold increase in price!).

Wetaline:
(it's a 6 year degree mate )

[DICER]

superglue is a likely carcinogen. I would not use it at all to seal a wound, even temporarily. There are plenty of other non-toxic practical methods available.

I would agree with Youngfisho and wetaline. Use proper first aid or medical treatment. Urban myths and village opinion are terrible. It can be very misleading and have bad consequences.

Dug though, has brought up a valid new treatment and it is being tested by medical personel. Police in the US are issued with it. There is also another gel being tested that does not cause burns but restricts blood flow very quickly. It is however still being tested.

Nicotine however from tobacco is also a vasoconstrictor. Therefore it can be used to restrict blood supply quickly. It has been used effectively in WWII to stop profuse bleeding. A crushed up cigarette is all that is needed to stem profuse blood flow in some instances (eg. superficial headwounds). Then again nicotine is a carcinogen (less so than superglue) and tobacco firms have the nasty habit of spraying their crops with maleic hydrazide to regulate nicotine production in the final days before harvest. It's a known carcinogen as well.

Better, though, you do not bleed to death. Proper first aid and courses are essential. I encourage anyone to take one. You don't know when an accident happens and you don't know how serious it can be. Prompt first aid can save lives.

A course only takes a few days in one week

[rossco]

it would be good if we could buy quick clot over the counter as my partner and my son both have Von willie brand disorder (bleeders) you can go camping and relax

[rossco]

it would be good if we could buy quick clot over the counter as my partner and my son both have Von willie brand disorder (bleeders) you can go camping and relax

[PinHead]

Careful guys, I SAY AGAIN CAREFUL, there's a bit more to some of these things than you might think.

It's a four year degree in medicine, and then you are only a beginner.
(no jokes about a doctor's pracitce please)

Seriously, and I don't mean to offend any one here, I think you are the best bunch of guys around, but judging by the spelling and grammar used herein, some of you guys may not be ready for this stuff yet.

Even if you can lay your hands on it, get accredited first, if you can.

Surely there must be a physician or pharmacist or two on site that can shed some light on this one. Just because you read it on the "net" dosen't mean what you are reading is accurate.

If you are a medical professional, and choose to reply, you might want to register under a ghost name first to avoid any fallout later prior toreplying.

As for pepper, think about it, put a speck in your eye first and see if you think it's such a great idea to be putting it in an open wound. Remember the team in casualty have got to evacuate this stuff from the wound when the patient is presented. Then the doctors have to work with:
a) the original wound
b) the damage done by intervention

If you want to see how good pepper is at soaking up liquid, go pour some on top of a glass of water, that's where it will stay (ask anyone whos'e made a bloody mary and didn't stir it).
The urban myth is based on the fact that pepper (a finely ground, dried herb) will absorb moisture in proportions far exceeding it's initial volume. Because of the oils it contains, this dosen't actually happen readily.
On the other hand try using plain flour, corn flour, arrowroot, agar agar or gelatine and see what happens. These are true vegetable based thickening agents. AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING THEM AS FIRST FIELD ANTICOAGULANTS.

There are many considerations in the field when treating trauma, blood loss is just one. If you are really going to go "Harrisson Ford" I would suggest you do an advanced first aid course, dealing in delivering of injectables, suturing, pain management and the like.

If anyone is truly interested in this area of first aid, message me on this site and I'll see what I can come up with as far as a course is concerned - no promises.

No offence meant either but you really have to be careful when people cannot spell correctly (or could it just be a typing error)..LOL

[fishingnottake]

super glue isn'tt actually a carcinogen, but in a lot of cases it's too good at what it does, it will shut the wound but is damn near impossible to reopen it for treatment without causing futher damage, and will only seal the wound where it contacts it so you can quietly bleed to death further down, that being said most things are better than bleeding out.