Ciguatera... Do We have it ???

[bidkev]

Garry



Not sure whay you can't have peanuts though, maybe someone can explain this.

The arachidonic acid content in nuts (e.g., the legume peanuts and other nuts) is possible associated with adverse dietary responses in ciguatera fish poisoning by prostaglandin metabolism mechanisms.

(An omega-6 fatty acid. Arachidonic acid is the compound from which inflammatory mediators such as leukotrienes, thromboxanes, and prostaglandins are produced)

Any the wiser?

Gary, hope all concerned recover as soon as possible. It's sure made me think about what I'm going to eat in future.

From a distant memory, I think that lead poisoning can produce similar symptoms and I vaguely recall that a family displayed these symptoms from being in a confined space where there was exhaust fumes. I suppose that diagnosis would be preferable to worrying about what fish you're gonna eat for the rest of your life

As a consolotaion, use the money you save on grog to buy yourself some new gear

All the best to those suffering mate.

kev

Many things can be preserved in alcohol. Dignity is not one of them.

[Willo]

Yeh Big mac
Quote
I read somewhere a while ago that a yacht cruising family use to try the fish on the dog first - if the dog started to eat it - the fish was pronounced fit for all.

Gary forgot to mention the dog also had a feed of the fish at the same time and when Gary was takeing familly to hospital at midnight the dog was also vomiting up as well

Willo

[SeaHunt]

Yeh Big mac
Quote
I read somewhere a while ago that a yacht cruising family use to try the fish on the dog first - if the dog started to eat it - the fish was pronounced fit for all.

Gary forgot to mention the dog also had a feed of the fish at the same time and when Gary was takeing familly to hospital at midnight the dog was also vomiting up as well

Willo

No more beer for the dog then.

Consumption of alcohol caused a reccurance of symptoms in 28% of queensland patients

Thats pretty good odds in my book, have a few beers and got 70 % chance of being OK..
I know I wasn't the one who was sick but I would have to try that.
We are talking alcohol here.

[Owen]

Hope you and yours are well soon Gary

Pretty scary shit when you start to look into it

Other symptoms
Dermatitis, itch, rash, aches and pains, arthralgia, myalgia, general weakness, salivation, breathing problems, dyspnea, neck stiffness, headache, ataxia, exhaustion, fatigue, sweating, depression, and metallic taste in the mouth. Ciguatera, it should be noted, may also be sexually transmitted ( 2, 18 ) and may cause premature labour or spontaneous abortion ( 2, ). Ciguatoxins may also be transmitted via breast milk

Seems my wife is safe though

80 odd pages of info here
http://www.affa.gov.au/corporate_doc.../ciguatera.pdf

cheers,

Owen

[pojo]

this should be a warning to all off us that Ciguatera can be caught from fish caught on the north coast of nsw . As it not reported every time it occurs ,

[-Henno-]

When they say all mackerel pleeease don't tell me it can be present in spotted mackerel? I don't give a bugger if it could be present in slimeys!

Anybody heard about any confirmed cases through consumption of spotties?

Something that also interests me is the bit about it being cumulative. Obviously Garry has consumed a large amount of spaniard feeds in his time but if the kids that were visiting haven't eaten that much in their time can we assume that this fish was just loaded with the stuff.

Were the kids that visited regular spaniard eaters Garry? Have their symptoms been any less than yours?

All the best to you and yours and get well soon.

Mark

[seabug]

Hi Gary,
Sorry to hear of the family's illness.
Hope all are well soon.

I think that I have seen on this site where someone was testing for Ciguatera by cutting off a small piece of the fish's flesh and rubbing it on the inside of there mouth.
If it produces a tingling sensation then they dispose of the fish.

Can anybody confirm if this works.

Regards
Seabug.

[bigmack]

Ok - all of this had me worried enough to think hard about last years fishing and fish that we ate -

I remember on a couple of occasions eating spanish mack and feeling a bit funny in the guts - not actually crook; but just a bit grumbly and griping - you know the sort of feeling when your guts are just not 100% happy. Made me a bit restless at night. No after effects though...............so the cumulative effects of this thing started to worry me.

Do you think the grumbling guts was a precursor to getting this in the future? Has anyone else noticed this when eating Spanish Mack?

Thanks
Phill

[bigmack]

Ok - all of this had me worried enough to think hard about last years fishing and fish that we ate -

I remember on a couple of occasions eating spanish mack and feeling a bit funny in the guts - not actually crook; but just a bit grumbly and griping - you know the sort of feeling when your guts are just not 100% happy. Made me a bit restless at night. No after effects though...............so the cumulative effects of this thing started to worry me.

Do you think the grumbling guts was a precursor to getting this in the future? Has anyone else noticed this when eating Spanish Mack?

Thanks
Phill

[Hoges]

Do you think the grumbling guts was a precursor to getting this in the future? Has anyone else noticed this when eating Spanish Mack?

Thanks
Phill

Phil, I suggest sculling a cartoon of full strength beer and a bottle of Bundy.
If you start to feel ill after this I would consider getting checked out for possible ongoing Cigutera allergies.

[revs57]

Hi Garry,

any further news...hope things are starting to settle

all the best

Rhys

[Burley_Boy]

As stated by Trevor earlier, who is responsible for gathering info about actual cases and keeping statistics?
I note that Easter is a major fish purchasing time and that the most popular sales of fish at this time is Snapper and Mackarel, ie locally caught fish.
What this in effect means is that we are just as likely to get ciguatera poisoning from our local fishmonger as our own catch.

So how common is it, there is one heck of a lot of fish sold and caught and zero warning at the local fish shop or tackle shops. I expect the authority who collects the info to be responsible to let the puplic and consumers know the risks involved in eating our fish.

Re the alcohol tests.... does anyone know if there is any more damage done by for instance testing alcohol, or is it just a case of temporarily getting the symptoms back and thus it could be well worth a shot? The other strange one is that if the poison does not leave you then why do they tell you to avoid fish for 6months or 3years or whatever, that would tend to indicate a decrease in the effect of the poison over time.
Also the statement about sexually transmitted ciguatera sounds a bit suss. It is a poison I suppose similar to mercury, not a bacteria or a virus and its effect is dependant upon the amount you get into you so how much you'd transfer during normal human interaction would have to be insignificant.

Just my thoughts at the moment.
Keep your chin up Gary.

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Garry,

Hope you can get back up and into the buggers sooner rather than later. There's no reason why you still can't enjoy catching them. As for eating them, I think we will all be dubious in the future.

All the best to you, your family and your friends.

Dave

[choppa]

burley boy has a point and i read through all the replies posted so far before i posted this query,,,,

if you cant test the fish prior to consuming,, how do all the big boys in the industry manage,,,

i mean canned fish suppliers,,,we all know """which one's the best"""" but you never hear of any recall due to this problem,,,,,andv the amount of product they all ship around the world is amazing,,,,

in this day and age when anyone/everyone is out to make a fast buck,,,the lawsuits would be huge if some poor bugga ate contaminated fish from the can

as i said,,,,just a query,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,choppa

[Burley_Boy]

That study that Owen pointed to above is worthwhile reading for those interested.

http://www.affa.gov.au/corporate_doc.../ciguatera.pdf

Note that the study is a few years old but from what I have determined so far, very little has happened in the meantime.
Among other things the study found half life of the poison to be around a year in a bunch of eels so it firmly determines that the poison is expelled although in another part of the study it pointed out a 25yr time span. Too little study to be definitive though but for Gary and his family's sake we wish for the symptoms to be gone in the standard 6.5 days and never to return.

It also stated that there will certainly be people suing in the future and that pros should be aware of their liability. The test kit seems to be unreliable in at least 10% of cases with both false positives and negatives. I'll keep reading but Narrow Barred Mackarel doesn't seem like it should figure on the menu for a while.
BB
Thanks for the link Owen.