Are We Over-Governed??

[ahjayem]

My recent marathon effort with a post to the “Water Crisis We Had to Have” thread has caused something which I have had in my mind for quite a while to re-surface.

AS AUSTRALIANS, ARE WE OVER-GOVERNED?

As most people are aware, in Australia we have three levels of government – Federal, State and Local.

Is this one level too many?

The present levels create much duplication, if not triplication in many fields of government. Some examples are:

Duplication
Education - Federal and State
Fisheries - Federal and State
Health - Federal and State
Primary Industries - Federal and State


Triplication
Roads and Transport
Water Resources
Industrial Development

What are your thoughts? Which level could we do away with?

Tight lines

RJM

[Dodgy_Back]

Local Gov can definitely hand over some of their powers to the state gov.
Mick

[blaze]

IMO not over goverened but to many of the representives dont do the work they are elected to do and to many experts called to back up statements etc
cheers
blaze

[finga64]

Two levels are the go
(a) Federal
(b) Regional to be resonsible for the day today running like a big council whilst the Federal makes the big decisions like where to put dams and the like. ie one region would be SE QLD which would be from the border out to the range and up towards Bundy.
Do away with states and local .

Just think how much squabbling that would stop just in the SE corner of QLD with just the water debate alone.

How many local councils are just in the SE corner of QLD all duplicating offices and internal infrastructure.

Just think on how much money could be saved by not paying people that don't do a great deal to start with and how much money and time could be saved making decisions.

[seatime]

The local councils always seem to be deep in curruption and mismanagement allegations. Guess that's what happens when local business people, usually with a vested interest, enter politics. Solution, get rid of local gov't.
IMO government should be run by professionals, not people who want to be big fish in small ponds.
There has been a lot in the media lately about foreign workers, guest labour etc. Why not import some well credentialled politicians from Singapore or Taiwan. They couldn't be worse than the ones we've got now.
There is a well publicised skills shortage in Australia, and it starts with John Howard, then goes down, down, and down from there. Ultimately the local councils are in the negative as far as skills go.
regards

[Feral]

The current level of Government is correct.

Where duplication appears to occur, the different levels of government work in different areas, or on differing sized projects. The different level sof government also allow for planning to be more organised, yet more accessible for the little man.

Sure most working people would currently love it if John Howards government was swallowed up tomorrow, but dont confuse the politicians with Government.

For instance with Roads

The Feds basically have an office that organises funding for the Federally funded road system, they have no capacity to arrange or do construction and planning, their sole purpose is to manage funding requirements, and set standards for federal highways.

The state Government is geared for large infrastructure projects, with the ability to plan and organise big construction projects, and manage the road system in terms of maintenance and planning for statewide and interstate movement of freight, transport and standards for state roads (about 40000k).

Local government are geared for small niche projects on smaller or urban roads. They are setup and resourced so that they can ecconomically do little projects. They are also able to respond to local needs quickly. The state government setup is to geared for big projects which does not allow it to do that economically.

[seatime]

The current level of Government is correct.

Where duplication appears to occur, the different levels of government work in different areas, or on differing sized projects. The different level sof government also allow for planning to be more organised, yet more accessible for the little man.

Sure most working people would currently love it if John Howards government was swallowed up tomorrow, but dont confuse the politicians with Government.
For instance with Roads

The Feds basically have an office that organises funding for the Federally funded road system, they have no capacity to arrange or do construction and planning, their sole purpose is to manage funding requirements, and set standards for federal highways.

The state Government is geared for large infrastructure projects, with the ability to plan and organise big construction projects, and manage the road system in terms of maintenance and planning for statewide and interstate movement of freight, transport and standards for state roads (about 40000k).

Local government are geared for small niche projects on smaller or urban roads. They are setup and resourced so that they can ecconomically do little projects. They are also able to respond to local needs quickly. The state government setup is to geared for big projects which does not allow it to do that economically.

so what r u saying, working people r too dumb to know the difference between pollies and gov't. us workers musn't be as clever as u 'white collar' workers.

[DICER]

compared to specific countries in europe - No

[PinHead]

I doubt we can be rid of State Gvernments even if we wanted to. 1901 saw the formation of the Commonwealth of Australia..a federation of the States with a lot of powers still vested the States. I think there is something in the Constitution regarding the vested interests of the States therefore I doubt this could be altered to any great extent.

[Mozza]

My view is more to do with the over-legislated side to over-governed.

It's getting to the point where commonsense no longer has a place in society - theres rules and laws about pretty much everything. Its much easier to pass a law on say; camp fires in National Parks than it is to spend money on education to the uneducated and better descriptive reasons why a seasonal fire ban is put in place.

Personal responsibility, some of us have contributed to the problem: if you decide to cross the road where there is no ped. crossing, you accept the responsibility of your actions. No lawsuit because there was no ped. crossing at that particular location. The guy gut full of sauce decides to dive into a pool 1m deep and ends up a quadriplegic and sues. Claims and lawsuits have caused a reactive policy from government: 'You're not allowed to swim here' because some idiot jumped in and drowned.

I thought that national parks were a place you could get away from red tape but sadly, no.

The thing is that it appears that 'over-governing' is causing a reaction from us/society where we're happy to bend over with 'yes, I like you making all the decisions for us.'

Additionally, with so many laws piled one on top another its becoming too hard for the law enforcement guys to go out and make a simple arrest of someone who is blatantly breaking the law.

This is why fishing/boating is so good - the rules are still fairly simple and you don't have to stick to the black bit between the yellow and the white line. Thank god.

Mozza

[novice23]

Simple Answer: No
You could forever sit and debate examples of situations where someone doesn't win or something doesn't make sense to you personally. I agree our system of government is not perfect but a lot of the 'shortcomings' pointed out in this thread are simply misguided.

[dfox]

I'd answer, but first i have to make sure im legally allowed too, and do i need a licence to answer or a permit and if i do am i qualified, let me get back to you....

[gropeher]

Of course we are, give it another year or two and all the assetts will be sold off just like in NZ, Thats why thers no money there and all the brains trusts move here.
You would think the Gov would learn from NZ mistake but no.

Once the assetts are sold off we might all move back home where there is some decent fishin ,

Oh nope, that still wont do it sorry, the weather is too good here, and the pay rate and money still goes alot further here, so your stuck with us.
P.S. our cricket team is too good here too.

Sorry you guys cant play rugby union though.

I support my Aussie cricket team, and my All Blacks.
Geez one might be correct in thinkin I'm a little confused here...

Cheeers Ryan..

[frankj]

The big ticket items should be handled exclusively by one body, the Federal Government. This includes such areas as health, roads (construction), education, ports and other major infrastructure that would not benefit the users by being in private ownership. In this category you could include telecoms, water and maybe power.
One of the deciding factors could be the desirability of standardisation across the country. By that I mean that we all want and demand a certain level of services such as health care, education etc. and it would be prefferable to think that this would not vary with the area in which you lived. (within the limits of practically)
Local councils can administer some of the services, public transport, development applications, roads maintenance, ensure supply of utilities etc., but the rules are set nationally and the councils are overseen (managed) by a department of the federal government. In this way feds couldn't blame state and vice versa. The final responsibility would always end up with the feds where the real power lies.

My view of the new world.

Cheers
Frank

[Feral]

so what r u saying, working people r too dumb to know the difference between pollies and gov't. us workers musn't be as clever as u 'white collar' workers.

Geez Gelsec, what an insult! never been a white collar worker in me life!

I meant when the pollies get ya stirred up, dont blame the poor mugs just trying to carry out their wishes! I also meant that getting rid of one level of "lords and masters" would not decrease the size of government, or increase its efficiency. Dont you think if that little lying rodent had a chance to sack a few more workers he wouldn't take it!