And this from answers.com....dosen't answer much though!!!!
Reproductive biology
Very little is known about the reproductive biology of the flatheads and flying gurnards. All families produce pelagic, nonadhesive eggs. Japanese researchers have shown that some flatheads (e.g., Suggrundus meerdervoortii and Cociella crocodila ) begin life as males and undergo sex reversal to become females as they grow older.
It astonishes me that some of the comments about the fact that those fellows have done nothing wrong. Yes, of course you are right, according to the law, but we have to promote a moral code as well. You would be the first to go off at someone who did this in Qld, which is breaking the law, but I would hope that you would go off for the sake of the rest of us and the fisherie stocks as well. If not, your a bloody hipocrate. As for changing the law and lobbying the Newspaper, all very good to say, but us Queenslanders have buckleys of doing that in NSW.
The greens no doubt read this website, and no doubt some of the comments have given them the ammunition they need to support further restrictions on us for the upcoming review on Moreton Bay. Now - I will put on my flak jacket and wait for the attack >>
Horny
Live every day as if it's your last - for one day you're sure to be right!
Yeh Muzz,
I can see your point, but the promotion of the slaughter of these breeding flathead only goes to encourage people to kill them rather than let them go.
Sure a young kid getting his biggest fish is great...but the boofheads who do it just so they can get their head in the paper and win $100 in the hope that they will be in the draw for some fishing gear..I can't understand..because if it continues there will be less and less fish to be caught..then what will they do with there fishing gear..sell it on Ebay...I don't know maybe I'm wrong, but It would be good in the years to come when Max takes his son out to catch a big flathead..at least they will still be there if we act now. IMOA
Cheers Andy
"..but we have to promote a moral code as well."
The fact that you can keep one and no more says to me that fisheries has looked into it and detirmened that this is sustainable, promoting your own moral code on individual fishermen would be confrontational to say the least and would more than likely end in violence,far better in my opinion to contact fisheries and get the facts,then go from there,but be prepared to fall on your sword should the facts show that you are wrong.
dunno but those flathead are some big suckers
Found this one also from NSW DPI
Reproductive biology of dusky flathead
Saltwater Trust Allocation: 2004-05 $64,730
Aim:
Determine size and age at maturity and timing and location of spawning of dusky flathead in NSW
Background
Dusky flathead is an important finfish species harvested by recreational and commercial fishers in NSW. Because of concerns over the long-term sustainability of the resource (see Gray et al. 2002), the minimum legal length of dusky flathead was increased from 33 to 36cm in July 2001, with a further increase to 40 cm proposed. This proposed increase in size limit was based on relatively rudimentary information concerning the size that flathead spawn. No detailed study of the reproductive biology of dusky flathead has been done. This is needed so that future decisions on the most appropriate size limit for the species can be made based on rigorous scientific knowledge. This DPI study is determining the reproductive cycle, size and age at maturity and the timing and location of spawning of dusky flathead in NSW. It will provide advice on the species life history and possible management options to maintain sustainable harvesting including suitable size limits.
But the real question Andy, was weather these really big flathead were capable of breeding , or were they too old to successfully complete their cycle?????
Muzz
These are a few other extracts I have come across
Dusky flathead research
The Saltwater Trust is funding research to determine the reproductive
cycle, size and age at maturity and the timing and location of
spawning of dusky flathead in NSW. The research will inform possible
management options to maintain sustainable harvesting including
suitable size limits.
The age validation research aims to provide an ageing technique
for key recreational fish species, including sweep, tarwhine, luderick,
sand whiting, bream and dusky flathead. Information on age and
growth is essential for stock assessments of fish populations. The
study aims to answer questions such as How old is a fish at any given
size? and At what age does a fish reach the minimum legal length?
This from DAFF NSW
Life history
Both species of flathead spawn in bays and estuaries and in shallow, nearshore coastal waters, apparently in response to increasing day length and water temperature.
Dusky flathead spawn during the warmer months of September to March in northern tropical waters, November to February in Moreton Bay and January to March in New South Wales and Victoria. In New South Wales, dusky flathead spawn in the channels near estuary mouths and ripe fish have also been collected over seagrass beds in Botany Bay. There is no information on the frequency of their spawning or fecundity. There is conflicting information on whether they are protandrous sex reversers or not; ie each fish first functions as a male and then changes to a female. Dusky flathead mature as males probably in their second year and sex reversal from male to female probably takes place at 4 or 5 years of age.
Sand flathead undertake a single, brief spawning between August and October in Port Phillip Bay. There is no reproduction information from other areas.
Eggs and larvae of dusky flathead are dispersed along the coast by tide and current movements. Small juveniles less than 12 cm total length first appear in coastal bays 1–2 months after spawning (eg April in Botany Bay). Small juveniles mainly inhabit shallow mangrove and mud flats and seagrass beds.
Dusky flathead attain a maximum size of approximately 15 kg and 1.2 m total length. At 1 year old, dusky flathead in Queensland waters are about 18 cm total length. By 3 years of age they average 40 cm, and by 8 years of age average 90 cm total length. Dusky flathead mature at a larger size in warmer waters and at a smaller size in cooler waters. For example, the average total length at first sexual maturity is 46 cm (males) and 56 cm (females) in Queensland, 32 cm (male) and 38 cm (female) in Botany Bay. In southern New South Wales and Victoria the average total length at maturity (both sexes) is about 26 cm.
Sand flathead are reported to a maximum total length of 46 cm10 and weight of slightly more than 3 kg. In Victoria, sand flathead attain 10–12 cm total length after 1 year, 22–30 cm after 4 years and up to 43 cm after 9 years.Maximum age is estimated at 7 years for males and 9 years for females, and females can attain a larger maximum size than males. In Port Phillip Bay, all sand flathead are sexually mature by 22 cm total length.
Flathead are usually solitary but can form loose aggregations. Flathead sometimes move long distances. For example, a dusky flathead tagged at Fraser Island, Queensland was recaptured 230 km south after 97 days' liberty. Tagging studies in the Clarence and Richmond rivers in New South Wales indicate a northward movement, with a number of fish recaptured around Moreton Bay in southern Queensland.
Don't rightly know Muzz!
But I'm looking into it, will keep you updated with progress.
Cheers Andy
and what "moral code" do you propose????Originally Posted by Hornblower
It astonishes me that some of the comments about the fact that those fellows have done nothing wrong. Yes, of course you are right, according to the law, but we have to promote a moral code as well. You would be the first to go off at someone who did this in Qld, which is breaking the law, but I would hope that you would go off for the sake of the rest of us and the fisherie stocks as well. If not, your a bloody hipocrate. As for changing the law and lobbying the Newspaper, all very good to say, but us Queenslanders have buckleys of doing that in NSW.
The greens no doubt read this website, and no doubt some of the comments have given them the ammunition they need to support further restrictions on us for the upcoming review on Moreton Bay. Now - I will put on my flak jacket and wait for the attack >
If a person has done nothing wrong by the laws in the jurisdiction they are in, then what is the problem?
Not some mythical moral code...in Qld as soon as a flattie reaches 70cm then it must go back...if we keep catching smaller ones then none will grow to that size so should we throw them all back?????
If you class someone as being hypocritical for obeying the laws of the region they are in, then I don't know what else you expect.
As for the greens, I really don't care what they read or what they write..they are full of crap no matter which way you read them.
If not a moral code!
Then maybe some *COMMON SENSE* is in order as was stated by Squidgie earlier,
and
another quote from Squidgie *LIMIT YOUR CATCH..DON"T KILL YOUR LIMIT*
at least this way all of us can enjoy the future of our fishing for our kids and grandkids ...for if we don't .....what sort of legacy will we leave behind?
I know it's legal to catch fish like the one's in the photos but is it sensible????
cheers Andy
in answer to the question how do we know if the big girls are still breeding ie 6gk and above i know down here that if you get on to a heap of small flathead in one area and i mean six or more fish normaly you can always pick up the big girl as well, all these little ones are i presume males and they are there for the big girl breeding ciycle, and i have seen this happen again and again little ones normaly means big one close by, and if you target the big girls treat them with care and take pic and let her go nothing better than seeing her go back, i have also seen some monsters cleaned at cleaning bays and they are full of roe so thats means to me she is still able to produce young, i might be wrong but i still will let them go no matter what, i am no greenie i hate them with vengence for what they are doing to the fishing world with their bloody lies, i will always practice catch and release fishing, but i love eating fish so i do take home a feed now and then but only what i need, but as Maxi said we have nothing against the guy who caught the fish it is legal in NSW to have one over 70cm, but it doesn't mean we like that law.
cheers squidgie
Chili,
thanks for that info, haven't seen it before, and nice to know that somebody is researching the topic. We might eventually get the correct information on what to do. The present system seems to be pretty good, where you put the small ones back so that they can get to breeding size, and you can keep one big one if you want to. Looks as though all the females we catch have reached breeding age, so I still don't know if I'm doing the same damage, keeping the ones I eat, as the bods who had their piccie in the paper. I guess the huge females could hold more eggs so maybe they do lay more eggs than the smaller breeding females.
Just going on what I catch at JB and what i see other people catch, I get the impression that flathead seem to be able to breed up replace what we catch better than many other species. But of course I don't know if that is really the case.
Interesting thread. I am suprised that we know so little about a very popular fishing target. Maybe fisheries should be using some of our licence money and do some research. It would appear obvious to me though that if large fish are found with row in them, and large fish often attract males then they would be capable of spawning and I would assume producing more eggs as is the case with many other fish, size=numbers.
I personally dont agree with the no upper size limit rule. I also dont agree with the same sort of rule for Bass with NSW having only a 2/day in possession with no minimul size requirerments. I only hope that those rules were made by smarter people than me because I cant see how the current rules protect the flathead breeding stock.
As for the pics in the paper, yes it is legal, yes they have 5mins of glory but things must be changing slowly, you dont see flathead frames nailed to trees anymore (maybe cause you dont catch big flathead as much) If someone catches a decent sized flathead on my boat it is up to them if they wish to keep it, thats their choice but they might want to wait till they get back to shore to kill it cause they will need help swimming back as I wont take them
Eat well, drink in moderation, exercise often and yet you still die anyway!
It is fairly common knowledge that the flathead changes sex therefore all the really big ones are female. They start to breed at this time of year so most big fish caught at this time of year will be a females full of roe. This is the basis for the QLD slot. Whether they can still breed or not after a certain age is irrellivent as you wouldn't be able to pick an old fertile girl from one that isn't.
Jim
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