Newbies Dumb Question

[Mad_Barry]

OK, I'm not a fly fisho, & am unaware of the "done thing" in this dark side of fishing, but am starting to take a bit more of a "passing interest"

I'm going to ask a rather dumb qusetion, so bear with me

After casting, why is the fly line retrieved by hand & not on the reel ready to go upon a hook up. ?

The reason I ask is that I recently spent an hour or 2 beside a flyfisho off one of the breakwalls up here & he looked to be getting into a hell of a mess with flyline hanging around in the jagged rocks, & when hooked up to the odd flighty tarpon he got himself into more of a mess ???

After each cast, his rate of retrieve (stripping ?) looked to be at a rate that you should be able to maintain with the reel.

I asked this of this fellow & his reply was along the line of, well, thats just the way you do it.

I can understand this with a fast retrieve, beyond what is comfortable with the reel, but why also on a slowish retrieve ?

What about casting into snags ? where a retrieve would be relatively slow ? is it?, wouldn't it also be easier to have the line on the reel, ready for fight mode in extracting a stubborn snag dweller ?

Or am I barking up the wrong tree ? , or maybe fallen right out of it ?

[jock]

I think im a fly fisher,when your pulling the line back in its supposed to create movement on the fly with starting,stopping mode,when you fly fish you cast more often than any other method so its easier to cast with the line already off the real,you can buy a waste holder that stores the line when you pull it back in so it doesnt get snagged at your feeton rocks that dammage your lines.

[Wesley_Pang]

Barry,

I like to think that conventional fishing is the the "Dark Side". Feel the Force and come over to flyfishing, Young Skywalker.

The reason flyfisherman do not retrieve using the reel is

• Too slow - flyreels are 1-1 ratio
• Can not impart action on the fly
• You have to strip the flyline off after each retrieve to cast again

The flyfisherman you were watching should have used a stripping basket(shopping basket tied around the waist to hold flyline) to stop the flyline tangling around the sharp rocks(good flylines are over $100).

Casting into snags you don't want to fight the fish off the reel. You'll be "bricked" before you can control the fish. For snag-bashing it is hand-to-hand combat. You strip the line in with your hand, like a normal retrieval.

Now you understand, the art of flyfishing and feel its "Force", it's time for you to pick up the "long wand"(more powerful than a light sabre).

Wes

[Mad_Barry]

hmmmm,, thanks fella's

I thought there had to be some "method" behind the "madness".

Yes Wesley, it's on my "to do" list for next year , plenty more questions to follow, no doubt >

I'm still a bit concerned with the idea dropping a "fly" into a snag full of barra & jacks. ???

The idea of handlining them out while skipping and dancing around the in flyline at my feet, and merrily waving a 9ft "trout" rod about my head , is quite thought provoking ,,,in a "sadistic" sort of way

[Maxg]

Tut Tut Barry, next thing we will have Luke Skywalker on the boards. Wes you can do all of those things with a threadline outfit, if you use a shooting head, like an elongated sinker, cast like rockets. Ektually, I never fish hand to hand, if I'm casting into snags thats as much line as I have out and the rod tip is pointing at the fly and I've usually got a good grip on the line. Fish hits, I lift the rod, course its a 12#, and fish moves out of snag, then I wind reel flat out. Mind you I don't know a lot about this stuff so I'm probably doing it wrong.
I expect to get hit as the fly lands, or in the first foot or so, having put it in there a few times already just to stir things up, so I don't do a lot of retrieving. If I don't get hit after 3 casts, I bugger off somewhere else.
But people using other rods might do it differently, but I'm kind of stuck on proper tackle for bush bashing. Max

[troutstalker]

two words. LARGE ARBOR

[Maxg]

Fishing close in snags, use full line, cast fly in there, point the rod at the fly, get the line straight and flip the tip. The fly simply explodes and moves foward about 3 feet, straighten the line and do it again. Its the Pearson technique, works like hell let loose. Ron doesn't use drags, simply holds the reel solid and pulls on the rod. Fish goes nowhere. Works great. Fly fishing techniques developed the way they did, because in past times there were no fly reels, but there were simple ring runners and people actually managed the line with their hand. When reels appeared they were very simple devices just to hold line.
With SWF you need more than a line holding device and a fly reel with a high retrive rate would be nice, like a multiplier, and there are multiplier reels, like Valentines which have a 3 to 1 retrieve rate. In any case I rarely handle the line, fight the fish with my hand, I always get the fish on the reel, its safer and better.
Those LA words have been bastardised to death. You only get any advantage with LA if the spool is over 4.25" in diameter. The reason for LA is a... fast retrieve, b... constand drag setting... c.. Constant line retrieve d... wide spool gives high capacity. These things only occur with large diameter reels, reels under 4" diameter have no real advantages if they are LA..

Max

[Rosso]

I have not been fly fishing for along time so i will try and answer your questions.

After casting, why is the fly line retrieved by hand & not on the reel ready to go upon a hook up. ?

So you can let loose the line again

The reason I ask is that I recently spent an hour or 2 beside a flyfisho off one of the breakwalls up here & he looked to be getting into a hell of a mess with flyline hanging around in the jagged rocks, & when hooked up to the odd flighty tarpon he got himself into more of a mess ???

He should have used a casting basket

After each cast, his rate of retrieve (stripping ?) looked to be at a rate that you should be able to maintain with the reel.

If differs from the type of fly you have and the type of fish your after. But as for the reel bit look above

I asked this of this fellow & his reply was along the line of, well, thats just the way you do it.

No comment.

I can understand this with a fast retrieve, beyond what is comfortable with the reel, but why also on a slowish retrieve ?

As above

What about casting into snags ? where a retrieve would be relatively slow ? is it?, wouldn't it also be easier to have the line on the reel, ready for fight mode in extracting a stubborn snag dweller ?

From my understanding you hook a decent fish first (ie one that will strip or try to strip your line, and then you wind what you have onto your reel and play it from there.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree ? , or maybe fallen right out of it ?

There is no such things as stupid questions only stupid people!

And yes I am kidding...[1]
Rosso.

[1] About my lame arse statement about stupidy and not the quotes above...

[Maxg]

Here goes. Fly fishing uses a system similar to an elongated sinker, ergo a weighted line, which requires a special technique to cast. And it needs this because the fly is very light, has very little weight. To get any distance you need to aerialise the weighted portion of the line and to have a length of casting line, which you might have looped in your hand, or laying around on the ground or in a basket, ie line management system. This can cause problems depending on what the line is laying on, grassy banks, rocks etc.
Because you would need to get all this set up, every time you wanted to cast a fly, (if you retrieved the line on the reel), you only use the reel to fight the fish, if it is big enough. Otherwise you use your hand and let line out or pull it in as you need to.
It is a very old system, dates from the 1700 era, before that it was "Dapping", long line tied to rod tip, no reel, and the fly just dapped onto the surface. Like a Ned Kelly rig.
It isn't the best fishing system, has a hell of a lot of limitatioins, like for fish size, location of operation and was mostly designed for river fish and small sea fish. People tend to go overboard about fly fishing, but there are easier and more productive angling methods, if it was not like this everyone, including the drovers dog whould use fly gear. But funnily enough in real terms only a relative few anglers use fly gear.
But to get into fly fishing in fresh or salt water it can get very costly, rods can cost thousands of buks as can reels. lines are expensive and the whole thing varies depending on the depth of your pocket and the level you want to go. It isn't very effecient, in fact its downright ineffecient, and generally the fly is in the air about 80% of the angling time and only about 20% in the water which reduces catch chances dramatically. Waste of energy and time. There are more effecient ways of doing it, but they get a bit technical. They are designed to reduce the "in air" effort and increase the "in water" time.
Fly fishing was invented by birds, the Heron family, which use insects, seeds, twigs and feathers to lure fish into beak range. Man just imitated the birds.
Does that make you happy?. It won't make the fly guys happy but who cares. I suggest a book on fly fishing, cheers Max

[troutstalker]

Hey max, what other methods are you refering to?
when i started flyfishing, my catch rate doubled. fly fishing is a waste of energy and time? Its not just about catching the fish, its about the fishing. trying to throw a perfect cast to a rising spring creek rainbow who spooks easily. or trying to piss off a stubborn steelhead for an hour untill he bites. to me, thats what its all about. and from my expierience, fly fishing usually offers some of the most unique and toughest challenges. and when you do hook up, you feel rewarded for your time, patience, and skills. Id like to hear what other methods you got. then well talk about a waste of energy and time. Cheers, #####

[Maxg]

Well I don't fish for trout and if I did I would use worms. But in any case I can catch as many if not more fish on white lead head jigs and spinning gear than I can on fly, and that has been the case for 35 years. Firstly its faster, in operation and retrieve speed, longer casting and gives you a great number of options from bottom jigging to surface flat out spinning. The rod is longer usually, and more effecient than 9 foot fly rods, with D/D 1:1 reels. There is less water drag, just overall a better system.
The performance of fishing systems, lure fishing which includes fly, relates to time in the water and casting distance. Fly is certainly second best.
Here is an example. I live at Yanchep in WA and there is a flat reef with generally low swell. You can use fly gear, but you have to use a basket and distance rarely exceeds 80/90 feet. If that far. You don't see many fly huckers at Yanchep Lagoon.With a 15' fly rod I can cast 130 plus feet, but using spin gear I can get the jig out 200 feet and it is truly more productive because the tailor are generally well out, rather than close in.
Fishing off rocks comes up with similar results and in a lot of cases using live bait beats the crap out of fly, as does using pilchards. Be a little realistic, it is a short range system, with a very reduced time in water factor, due to the casting method, and because people have this "light" syndrome they are limited to small to medium fish. I don't use light fly gear, I prefer realistic tackle, both fly and spin. Which is why I use 12# fly rods and 15/18lb B/s line on spin gear.
I think fly gear is great, and I've had 35 years of fun, but it isn't the be all and end all of fishing tackle.
There are no doubt places where fly gear shines, but where I fish it certainly has its limitations. And I'm the first to admit it. I've caught enough fish over the years on fly and spin gear to be able to compare both systems. And regardless of the "its not about catching fish" it really is about catching fish. If it was only about casting, you could do it in your backyard. Get real its about catching fish, lots of fish.
Max

[Jack_Lives_Here]

NO it's not "about catching fish, lots of fish" to all. > Most days I couldn't give a rats if I don't catch a fish. The scenery, the company, the sounds of the bush - just a few extras that make a fishless trip enjoyable.

[Maxg]

Well I disagree totally. If it wasn't about fish we wouldn't do it. I like standing on an ocean rock on a nice day, watching the birds and the scenery and casting to fish, with anything. But I don't go there to look at scenery I go there to catch fish and so do you, if you are honest about it. For what it is worth a fish diet is healthy, very healthy, and keeps your heart ticking and the fat down. I have been in one side and out the other of fishings idealistic activities over a lot of years and I am now realistic. Fishing is about fish, to the greater majority of people who fish. I'm just one of the great unwashed majority. And I love it. Max

[adriancorrea]

Its just like a bad day at golf, better than a good day at work
Fishing is just the Same and the thrill of it all is just being out of
the rat race and enjoying the time and peace. (sometimes)
I dont eat fish but sure do enjoy fishing.
I always say that catching fish is a bonus.
But I always come home annoyed when I dont catch fish LOL

Tight Lines
Adrian