Floating Heads.-------

[Quinny69]

Seeing that heads have come back in fashon (somethin to do with T14 prob, great stuff,,cheers Snelly) Does anyone know who makes a Floating head that will cast on a #12 rod? Ive seen floating heads in older flymagazines but they are in Troot weights. Is there a Sprey/scandinavian head that would work on a single hander #12?. At the moment Im using a #13 Corland Big game WFF,(for poppers and shallow flies) Its difficult in wind due to its very THiCK head setion, only good for short casts.....or is there a good Int. head that i could use insted,,prefer a floater though. THANKS to anyone who can help, I cant find ANY anywhere in Bris.. cheers Matt Q

[Maxg]

Floating and intermediate heads are a pain because of the diameter, and the resultant water drag. A head used on a 12# if 30 feet should be at least 2 line weights up on the rod rating, that is a 14# and in a floater thats rope.
You would be better off using a standard sinking head, and vary the retrieve to suit the fly. You can fish poppers with a sinking head, and any other type of fly, if you want. But you still need a 14# head.
Shooting heads did not hit the popularity list because of T14 or LC13 but have been used in SWF for years. I've used heads exclusively since 1969, and they were all sinkers. Mind yu heads are not very useful for fishing flats and are more suited to boats rocks and jetties. You could use 35 feet of T14 or 38' of LC13 but you will need to use a leader that matches the head otherwise they tend to dump as the velocity is reduced.
If you can get hold of a copy of the last issue, May, of Fishing WA magazine Ian Sewell has a bit in there, pics as well on the casting method for heads. Its informative and really works. Its called the "Huck" because it is about as far from casting as the Alice is from Hobart. Max

[Quinny69]

Yeh,, for some reason I thaught/hoped that a floating head would be thinner than the head of a WFF.Wanted to make a mix n match system for my #12,,, i keep getting told to use my sinking lines for my poppers, but it never works,even with an int. the fly gets dragged under about halfway through the retreve (great 4 freashwater Darlberging however), T14 wouldnt even give me 1"POP"..... I guess Ill stick with the 1pc WFF. the Cortland BiG GAME tapers alot like a head anyway, .Has anyone got an old/stuffed #14 or #13 WF Int line they dont used and could sell for a 6pac??? cheers mq

[Maxg]

Come on, I've fished poppers off sinking heads for years, you just retrieve it quicker and if it dips under the water it generates more noise and splashes. It's all noise and gurgles which makes for better results.
To get thinner heads you have to go to sinkers because they are denser and thinner. You get nothing for nothing, but you can go to longer heads, like 45 feet rather than 30 feet. A 12# weight 45ft head weighs 570gns, which is really a 30' 14 or 15#, and Rio sell them in all types.
But floaters are still thick. You could look at the Loop heads, the ones designed for double handers. Look at www.looptackle.com. Max

[Quinny69]

OK Max, would a 845grn 44ft FLOATING head made for a Double Hander, work on a single hander #12? Its rated for #12-14 rods.......I cast 37ft of T14 (518 grn) reasonablly well.. #so would 845grn over load the #12 1hander#MQ

[Maxg]

Do you mean 12/14 dh rods or 12/14 single handed 9 footers.
Thats a lot of load for a rod designed to handle an optimum load of 570gns. You could use a 45'head designed for a DH rod in the 8/9 class, which might be around the required weight, like 570gns. A load of 625gns works very well on a 12' DH rod in 8/9 so I guess a Loop adaptive in 8/9 would fit on a 12# 9' rod. You could cut it to 570gns But floaters are still thick no matter which way you go.
A 30' 570gn floating head would be thicker than a 45' 570gn head, that is total weight. the 45' head requires less floatation per linear foot. Which means a 30' 570gn floater would be a 14/15# head, while the other would really be a 12# head
I guess you would need a 45' 12# head, in floating, Most people don't like long heads on 9' rods, but they do go a long way and reduce the amount of shooting line needed by at least 15 feet. Which is handy, and using a leader around 12 feet reduces it even further. You might need to practise a bit holding 45 feet airborne.
Max

[uncle_barry]

Good evening Max, Quinny and All.
To try and help or make things a bit clearer,

Long heads, briefly, 40 feet plus cast further and are easier to cast because they are smoother.
If your casting a T14 or LC13 now, you will love the smoothness of a long head and will take about 5 minutes to adjust.

Double Handers carry more line/head in the sky, weight wise most times.

Using a suitable D/H'er loading/head is possible and would be a good idea in fact, because these Heads have a suitable forward taper that reduces or stops dumping, which in the case of a Floating head would be a great advantage because of the resulting splash.

Or why not investergate the idea of purchasing a Salmon Double Taper line in 12 weight.
These are avaiable in both Floating and Slow Sinking.

We tested a 12w Salmon D/T S on a 13 w Sage rod last week when I saw your posting, the chap who owns the rod intends to use it for the Seaway Kingies in a attempt to stop them.
And it cast beautifully.

There are Floating D/T available and they are ropeist in size but thats just the way things are, to me the head size, diameter also acts as a brake or load for the fish to carry and if that helps me beat a Kingie, that great.
And you may find Salmon Double Taper lines are almost cheap enough to feed to Kingies.
Kind regards.
Barry.

[Quinny69]

Max,,, cheers, Yes Im talking about a Double Hander head on a single hander rod , SO I should be looking at GRAINS instead of Rod size? Look for a head around 500 grns.That all I wanted to know,,,,,,,,thanks
Barry, Im just lookin for something to loop on the end of my running line,Ive got a goodish 1 pc line that works but hate swapping over full lines (Floater to Fast sinker)when I could just swap heads.
Gezz, As if this sport couldnt get MORE confusing........MQ

[uncle_barry]

Hi Matt.
I was thinking of test casting the Salmon D/T Floating line till you found a sweet loading point and then cut it, attach a loop, the same with a Sinking SD/T'er 12w, this way you could mix and match to suit the application, with a simple and quick loop to loop joining to your running/shooting/hauling line.

I also know where the same lines are for sale for only $35, each, if that helps.
Regards.
Barry.

[Maxg]

Well a 12# DT line is going to weigh 380gns for the first 30' of the level portion of the line, and you need 570gns which is exactly 1.5 times that 380gns. So iof you cut the DT line to 48 feet, starting the measurement from the end of the front taper, you should have 600gns odd plus a bit for the taper Then you can start chopping it to get it working well. Mind you MOST DT lines are not really designed for warm water, but Barry is right, I'd ask him about a 12# DT line, they are cheap and not bad stuff. I've got a 80 foot one. You save money and getr exactly what you want. Max

[uncle_barry]

Hi Max and Matt.
The D/T the one I am talking about is a Salmon line, not the normal single handed type, just what the real difference is, simple I don't know, however it loads and cast nicely with smallish flies on my Double 10/11w rod.

And as luck has it, it isn't effected by our summer weather or water tempetures.
I also stated we tested it on a 13w Sage single rod for loading, cast very nicely, indeed.

There are a number of fly casting things about that for some odd reason most people never discover, the Salmon 12w D/Ts are just a couple of them.

Haveing a cast or two with a Double Handed rod, anytime you are available, as most afternoons I am at the Southport Seaway, just come on up and say hello.
Regards.
Barry.
Kind regards.
Barry.

[Maxg]

Barry, yes I know but isn't it just a DT line, maybe a bit longer than a standard DT line. Its not bad stuff really you could get 2 heads out of one line if you were careful. And its pretty cheap, a lot cheaper than fancy WF lines, or even heads. About par with one LC13. VBg Max