Barra in SE Qld

[Fitzy]

Fitzy - sent you a pm. If anyone else is interested in this post, check this site. Take note of Point 4 in Objective 2.

Hi Harry,
I've read the results of Huchos report & discussed the findings with him.
This report is invalid in regard to Wivenhoe & Somerset as there is a totally different food web compared to the trial locations; Casava Lagoons 1 & 2. In a nutshell, there are no banded grunter, bony bream or tilapia in Casava & there are in S/set & Big W. There is ample proof to show that in lakes with bony bream present, the bony bream make up the majority of the protein intake for most of the predatorial species stocked.
Comparing Casava to Somerset is chalk & cheese. Also knowing where barra & bass like to live within a large lake is a big key. At both of the locations mentioned, it is quite unlikely that bass & barra will be in the same locations/depths/environments within these lakes.
A location like Casava is shallow, non-stratified, significant fringing emergent vegetation with a major protein source that is based upon small gudgeons, shrimps & insects. I'm dont doubt that any predator fish is going to eat anything that it can get in its mouth in an environment with little protein, be that other stocked fish or other.
Locations like S/Set & Big W that are deep, often stratified & hold massive protien source of food in bony bream, tilapia, snub nosed gar, spangled perch, redclaw, banded grunter etc.
Barra are a great predator, but wont go wasting energy chasing a fast & alert fish like bass. Tilapia, bony bream, gar, banded grunter etc a very soft targets & available in large numbers.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

[wheels9]

I'm ALL for it!!
I am still waiting to actually catch a beautiful barra and need to travel northward to do so which I am hoping to do in Sept?Oct but if I had the chance to do it here....WOOHOOO!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[BOMBER]

Hi All,

Would have to say a very interesting read so far, as I have fished at most of the so called Barra dams in Qld except for Tinnaroo would have to say what a great fishery we could create for this magnificient sportsfish here in SE Qld.
Not only would it create commercial opportunities for guides etc here in the SE but also bring more people to the dams here particularly those who aren't particularly interested in chaseing Bass for one reason or anoher( I don't know too many people who don't get switched on when you mention Barra) would also give a boost to camping grounds and motels in the areas where Barra are stocked, people who may never visit these areas to fish for Bass but drive by to head to Awonga etc would now stop here in the SE instead of pushing the extra 4 hours North to Awonga or further still to those further North.
I see the concern for those who love their Bass fishery and I must say that I too fish for Bass at Wivenhoe, Somerset etc however I also believe in fairness we all pay our sips and I would have to say at present every year I renew mine I tick Barra dams for my funds to be channeled to, as I prefer to fish for Barra at this stage of my fishing life as I feel that there is already an overabundence of Bass dams here in the SE that are being contributed to through the SIPS scheme.
I don't see the harm in stocking Barra as a trial in one dam here in the SE if it is successful in regards to Barra coexisting with Bass or whatever, great we have a great fishery for the 2 best sportsfish of their type (in my opinion) in Australia if it fails well we have our answer.
I will always fish for Barra no matter where I have to travel so this is not an issue for me as I have been doing this anyway for close on 10 years but for those who can't travel YYYYOOOOOOHHHHHHOOOOOO.
Anyway thats my $4.50 worth and I say BBBRRRRRIIIINNNNGGGGGG IT OOOONNNNNNNNNNNN.

Regards,

THE BOMBER

[harryhoy]

Post removed at the request of the Member

[Fitzy]

Fitzy - firstly let me say that I have Somerset in mind.

You have abviously made up your mind that the science is wrong and that barra should be stocked into dams in SE QLD. Surely you must admit that there is a risk, no matter how small you perceive it to be, that barra will dominate any dams where they co-exist with bass.

Lets have a look at Tinaroo. There was once a truckload of sooties in Tinaroo but who's caught one there in the last 2 years?

The fact that there are #species other than bass in the dams probably just means that it will take longer for the bass to be eaten. Like the ad says "It wont happen overnight, but it will happen". I am all for stocking barra in dams in SE Qld but lets not risk the excellent bass fisheries that have been created.

Surely, even the slightest risk that we could lose this fishery will force us to act on the side of caution when it comes to Somerset. Lets stock em in a dam where it doesn't matter if the barra eat all the bass.

Just my opinion.

Harry, I have made up my mind, however not that science is wrong, just that it is invalid if trying to apply the findings from one location on a totally alien environment. You need to be comparing apples with apples. And, just for interests sake I'll add that I've studies the full report, at some length & have discussed it with Dr Hutchison. He agreed when I explained my reservations about making recommendations with limited information. It is a real pity that there wasn't enough funding for a full blown study. What I AM convinced of, is that barra in one SEQld lake should be "trialed" & evaluated.

I'm not sure if you fully realise that bass are stocked into lakes. They cannot breed, there's no fish fairies involved, santa dont bring them, they just dont appear. The fishery is #reliant upon the stocking group to put them there annually.
If that group decide to stop stocking bass, poof, they're gone. Its not as if we HAVE to stock them. These decisions are made by a show of hands, again I'll invite you to play a part in your own fishing future by becoming an active member.
FYI- As it stands, there will be no bass stocked into Somerset or Wivenhoe anyway, until QFS change their policy on Commercial Fishing comps. So I'd say the bass fishery in Somerset is going to take a sharp dive within a few seasons unless QFS pull their fingers out. If you're worried about the Somerset bass fishery, I'd suggest you put pen to paper & get onto QFS to fix thier stuff-up.

Harry, contrary to what some folk may think, stocking group guys aren't rednecks who cry YAHOOOO as we pour fish willy nilly into lakes. We make decisions based upon but not limited to;
-Fingerling cost & availability (bass are far dearer than most)
-Are the likely to escape in a flood (wasted money & resource)
-Will escapees survive?
-Growth rates of fish (bass are the worst)
-Stocking levels (fish:hectare)
-Available food sources (do the fish have enough food?)
-Can the fish breed?
-What is their maximum size potential
-Likely locations the fish will be found (are we utilising all of the lake waters?)
-Angler returns from fish stocked (bass are good in this regard)
-Feedback from anglers & community expectations
-Conservation
-Tourism potential of species
-Pest control

Basically we are the managers of the fishery. If we feel we can provide a better fishery for anglers we will certainly explore that avenue. If that means a well managed trial, we are prepared to go down that path.
It IS the policy of SWFSA Inc to explore the possibility of new species for stocking, not just barra, other possibilities are Jungle Perch, various trevally, Mangrove Jack, tarpon, mullet, milkfish. The group will persue it to see if it is in the fisheries &/or anglers best interests. If it is found that there are more suitable fish species (of which I am certain there is) that can attract more visitors, give better angler returns for $$$ spent or capture a niche market, we will then consider going down that path. Does every lake in SEQ have to be a bass lake? It's like every car on the road being the same color, very ho hum indeed!
I'll take your oppinion of Somerset's bass fishery as a pat on the back, thankyou. SWFSA developed it & manage it. I think SWFSA has a bit of an idea on what they/we are doing after 16 years now. We've created, what we feel, are a couple of Australia's premier freshwater fisheries. We could improve on our record. If we've reached the peak of where our fisheries can develope, then my work & many of my colleagues work is done. We can hang up our hats & walk away.

Tinaroo sooties Vs Barra? Again, you aren't comparing apples with apples. Different location, food web, species, water temps, altitude, rain fall patterns......
Oh yeah, there's been a bit of reasearch on sooties in ponded waters by WA fisheries. The info is on the www if you look around a bit. # Better take a look at that before pointing the at barra being the culprits.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

[Randall]

I have a lot of respect for Fitzy personally and professionally. He does his homework and you can rely on the information he has aquired as true and largely unbiased. If Barra were not a good option for a trial in our SE, Fitzy would not be interested in them.

Where is our Peak body that is suposed to be representing us?
Fitz does more for us "Anglers" than any peak body.

The SWFSA are on the ball and always considering new things to improve our fisheries here in the SE corner. Bugger me, they have even set up their own hatchery in Ipswich now to further bolster fish numbers into our dams and to show school kids what is involved in stocking.

Its these guys that we need to be listening to!! They have the runs on the board for responsible stocking and I trust their learned judgement on the Barra issue.

Randall.

[adrianw]

how do we get a say as to who is on the govening board? and also who has the final say in what species #is allocated to be stocked into our inpoundments?
AW.

[harryhoy]

Ok Fitzy, I'll not go any further with this. Good luck with all future stockings.

[Fitzy]

Ok Fitzy, I'll not go any further with this.

Was actually going to say the same thing myself Harry.

Fitzy..

[lordy]

Ok Fitzy, I'll not go any further with this. Good luck with all future stockings.

I think Fitzy hit plenty of nails on the head, and I won't say much more.

One thing to mention though is that not every Lake in SEQ needs to be a barra lake. SWFSA would like to see a bit more diversity in stocking. Right now its basically 3 species and nothing else: bass-yellows-silvers and that is it. 90-99% of fish stocked come from those 3 groups. 2 of which aren't even eastern waters fish! So much for translocation as an argument.

We have worked hard to get "novelty" species such as Mary Cod and Saratoga going in the dams we stock. We have great hopes for Toga in Atkinsons and eventually a self stocking population in Wivenhow-Somersets. Self stocking is a big plus for this species.

Cod are just impossible to get in significant numbers and less than $2 a pop.

Mullet: not allowed to stock them. The reasons are unknown and it makes no sense not to stock them since they are native to the waters and provide an enviromental benefit.


We think diversity in stocking is a plus not minus. We could see something like this

Somerset: bass-yellows-silvers with a smattering of cod-toga.

Wivenhoe: Barra*-Jacks*-jungle perch*-big eye trevally*-toga.

Atkinsons: toga-based fishery with a smattering of other species.

Add in a smattering of mullet for evironmental reasons and thats a great set of diverse fishing spots. 3 dams, 3 different approaches. Something for everyone.

* not allowed to stock these but they are better fits than silvers and yellows.

[harryhoy]

Post removed at the request of the Member

[lordy]

SWFSA meet at Lowood Enterprise Centre on the 3rd Wednesday of every month. Welcome to come along.

Jacks are being trialled in NQ. No valid reason not stock in SEQ as they endemic to the region. Probably 5-10 years away.

J-Ps and Big Eyes: no research money, so no research, so nothing in the near future. 10+ years away at the very least.

Barra: not at the moment.

[captainpugwash]

i havent fished freshwater at all,but to see those big bitches
caught in the fresh turns me on.yes yes lets fill all fresh water lakes.great photo at start of page well done mate a real nice barra.

[Jim_Tait]

Lordy's - your cook book approach to species stocking makes my head spin,.. especially love "add in a smattering of mullet for environmental reasons". ???

You SE Qld Barra mob claim to be ecologically aware - but at the end of the day you just see dams as a big puddle of water to turn into your favourite species safari park - stuff the consequences or the fact that dams are connected to rivers which have native inhabitants which may get impacted by what you want swimming around in the dam. Ecology doesn't matter as long as can get a few extra happy campers to give the local economy a tickle and a smorgas board of species to choose from ‘she'll be right mate’.

For Lordy to refer to cod in the Brisbane catchment as a novelty species - is just too much. The fact that very little of the debate on this whole post has even concerned the potential threats a sustained barra population would pose to Eastern Cod a key NATIVE top order predator (endangered in SE Qld) in the system highlights the extent to which most couldn't give a stuff.

If you really did give a stuff, we'd be rehabilitating tributary streams of Wivenhoe and Somerset to the stage where they would support a breeding population of cod and stocking them until we had a viable population to kick breeding off. (And yes Fitzy I do know about the status of these streams I have surveyed the catchment and while many look like the picture you posted - -some don’t - if you want to PM me I can list a number of tributaries – including for Big W in which Cod should currently be able to breed in if they had the numbers).

So what if cod fingerlings are currently $2 a pop - we spend bloody hundreds of millions of dollars on football stadiums fer C..... Sake! Is our interest in our natural heritage and our natural 'sense of place' that poor that we'd rather cash it all in for an exotic fish?? piss poor I reckon and barra are exotic in the upper Brisbane river- guaranteed!

If Mary / Eastern Cod can’t have a future chance in the Brisbane River basin - the largest in their SE Qld range – then where are we going to make the commitment for the species – The Mary River it?

Well congratulations you mob, your pretty much in line with humanity’s general disdain for ecological concerns in the face of immediate consumer desires, which is what is going to send the planet to hell in a hay basket over the next couple of generations unless we turn this ship around.

Its like reading the paper “hey this article says climate change is going to wipe out the barrier reef…too bad hey?,.. then.. look at the add for the V8 ute on the next page – wicked, love one of those, hey darling turn up the air con its getting a bit sticky for an autumn day….Think about it.

[lordy]

Lordy's - your cook book approach to species stocking makes my head spin,.. especially love "add in a smattering of mullet for environmental reasons". #???

Both sea mullet and freshwater mullet were present in the Brisbane-Stanley systems before the dams blocked their upstream movements. SWFSA have received approaches to restock them for environmental reasons (consume algae and weeds in rivers upstream of the dams) and we think that is a good thing. What reasons do you have against reintroducing mullet to their old habitats?

You SE Qld Barra mob claim to be ecologically aware - but at the end of the day you just see dams as a big puddle of water to turn into your favourite species safari park - stuff the consequences or the fact that dams are connected to rivers which have native inhabitants which may get impacted by what you want swimming around in the dam. Ecology doesn't matter as long as can get a few extra happy campers to give the local economy a tickle and a smorgas board of species to choose from ‘she'll be right mate’.

Explain the fact the Murray cod, silver perch and golden perch were stocked on the eastern side of the range. Explain the fact the QFS has no problem with translocating saratoga. Far less local fish have been transported.

For Lordy to refer to cod in the Brisbane catchment as a novelty species - is just too much. The fact that very little of the debate on this whole post has even concerned the potential threats a sustained barra population would pose to Eastern Cod a key NATIVE top order predator (endangered in SE Qld) in the system highlights the extent to which most couldn't give a stuff.

SWFSA don't stock in the Mary River system, so the Mary River cod can quite happily stay away in the native river. Given the barra were once supposed to have lived in the Brisbane river, why is you object to reintroducing them yet demand protection for the Mary River Cod in the Brisbane system? One reintroduction is OK, one isn't?

If you really did give a stuff, we'd be rehabilitating tributary streams of Wivenhoe and Somerset to the stage where they would support a breeding population of cod and stocking them until we had a viable population to kick breeding off.

SWFSA stock every cod we can get our hands on. How exactly are we supposed to do any more than that? I could turn this around and ask you why you aren't rehabilitating tributary streams of Wivenhoe and Somerset if you care so much?

So what if cod fingerlings are currently $2 a pop - we spend bloody hundreds of millions of dollars on football stadiums fer C..... Sake!

SWFSAs job is to stock dams with angling fish. It is outside our regulated abilities to stock these rivers, ie we can't do it. The best we can do is stick cod in dams, where it is unlikely they will breed. At $2 a fish for a non-breeder its a poor return. Yet we still stock all we can get. So take your argument up with the government.

Is our interest in our natural heritage and our natural 'sense of place' that poor that we'd rather cash it all in for an exotic fish?? piss poor I reckon and barra are exotic in the upper Brisbane river- guaranteed!

Its unlikely barra would spend much time up river as its too cold for them in the shallow streams, leaving it free for cod. A much better use of cod than shoving them in a dam.

If Mary / Eastern Cod can’t have a future chance in the Brisbane River basin - the largest in their SE Qld range – then where are we going to make the commitment for the species – The Mary River it?

They have a place. This isn't an either or situation.

Well congratulations you mob, your pretty much in line with humanity’s general disdain for ecological concerns in the face of immediate consumer desires, which is what is going to send the planet to hell in a hay basket over the next couple of generations unless we turn this ship around.

blah blah blah