Yamaha vs Suzuki

[SeaSaw]

Hi Guys.

I am in the last stages of choosing a new engine for the Haines. I am definately going for the 4 stroke and have narrowed it down to the Suzuki or the Yamaha 225. Both look like top class engines and very similar in most respects including price. I plan to have signed up by the end of this week [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

The trouble I am having is finding anyone who can really explain the different performance characteristics between the two engines. The Suzuki runs a 2.29:1 reduction gear ratio and spins a very large diameter prop (prop spins slowly but pushes a lot of water area), whereas the Yamaha runs a 2:1 gear ratio and a smaller diameter prop (prop spins faster but pushes less water area). I have been trying to find out what this translates to in terms of performance. Is the larger prop going to hold a low speed plane in offshore conditions better? Which one will give the better acceleration? Does this effect revs for a given speed and fuel economy? I am certain that they would be different, problem is trying to work out which one best suits a fibreglass deep vee that weights a good 2.4 tonne in the water (with gear, crew and full fuel)

Dealers are useless and don't know any more than is written on the brochures. [smiley=stupid.gif] Anyone with any technical knowhow I have found is linked to one of these engines and is therefore pushing their barrow rather than giving me the info I am looking for.

Anyone got any ideas on this, or could point me to someone independant that has a good understanding of these type of performance issues.

Thanks heaps,

Mark

[NQCairns]

Hi Seasaw,

If you like to pull stuff apart like me (in theory) this might help you to decide, I know which one I would buy at a cursory glance might feel different after all the specs were weighed. IMHO It's really all about the MAX thrust at the RPM you want to travel at.

HP = (Torque X RPM)/5252

If both are producing the same HP, and one has more Torque, then the one with more Torque must operate at a lower RPM.

(ever wondered why o/b manufacturers rate their engines HP at 4500 to 5500???? and not a more defined RPM) Sly buggers.

An engine making 200 ftlbs of Torque between 2000 and 3000 RPM will produce the same amount of work as an engine making 100 ftlbs of Torque between 1000 and 3000 RPM. And an engine making only 50 ftlbs of Torque between 1000 and 5550 RPM will do more work than either.

The increased engine Torque and drop in engine RPM is usually made up for with a smaller gear ratio (closer to 1), and a bigger, higher-pitched prop. A similar HP outboard operating at a lower Torque and higher RPM will have a bigger gear ratio (further from 1), and smaller prop. In both cases, the object is to maximize the work the outboard can do through propping and gearing, according to the way it will be used (pulling a skier, speed boat, high-thrust trolling, etc)

Also look at the powerhead specs and then do a search on "piston speed" on the net. (piston speed is proportional to volumetric efficiency up to a limit, with higher piston speeds allowing higher torque)
Consider also the cubic capacity there is no substitute they say.
Consider also how detuned it is with respect to how close the engines HP is to the lowest rated identical engine.


Of coarse none of this means squat if the QC is up the clapper at the factory, any working motor is better than a broke one,

Hope I helped a bit. nq

[Streaker]

Mark
phone Steve at Solas he will be able to explain it in plain english.
Wayne

[polydriver]

Hey Wayne,

Clicked the link to your amazing fish web site.

Sorry to be picky but coming doesnt have a double mm

typos dont give good cred! ( its one of those things that get to me like finger nails on a blackboard, typos on web sites, lol )

good luck with the site.
when is it going to be up?

[phewy]

Yes Wayne, it's the same as when people type dont instead of don't or doesnt instead of doesn't. Typos. Or when they use no commas. Looking forward to your fishing site mate! I saw it was coming soon by reading the bit under the link. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
Come on Dave, it's just an under construction page, sure the real thing will be great. Love your poly by the way, don't see many of the cuddys around.

[polydriver]

As I said Paul, its just one of those things that gets under my skin. I know its picky but i cant help it I am like the Monk of Glaring typos (tongue in cheek ) on web pages that stand out like dogs lickable parts (cos they can)

I knew someone would have a go at my typing as soon as I posted it ...

Thanks for the comments, I like that model, affords a bit more protection against the elements.

[whiteman]

Try the same post to this US site and see what comes back. Much bigger audience and bound to be a lot of users of big engines. http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi

[basserman]

what is the diferance in wheight???
i'm sure in this day and age that the two would almost be identacai(Don't have a go at my typos. I know i $uck)

[Sportfish_5]

Mark

Wayne is on the money suggesting you to talk to Steve @ Solas. There is a good interview with him in this months F&B.

I don't think you would go wrong with either of those two brands. The important part will be what prop you put on it to keep a big deep vee up on the plane offshore and this is where Solas will give you the results. One thing he did mention in regards to legs is that the actual size of the gearbox can create drag giving a lower top speed for indentically speced engine. The reference in the article was made in relation to the Honda leg which is large and robust but I dont know how Suzuki and yammie would compare.

Cheers

Greg

[megafish71]

Mark I was in your position almost a year ago. Checked out the Suzuki also before buying my Yamy. Ended up making my decision based on the good track record of the yamy and the backing of the dealer. I felt very confident and comfortable dealing with my yamy dealer, but the suzuki dealer was your typical salesman that only seemed interested in selling you an outboard and not what backup or support they could offer. This is my second yamy four banger and I personally would not consider anything else on the back of my boat. I suppose it comes down to which brand and or dealer your more comfortable or confident in dealing with. Good luck with your purchase SeaSaw.

Cheers Ron

[phewy]

Hey Dave (polydriver), don't worry about typos, we all do them. When I wrote that post after you I had to go over it dozens of times to make sure I had it right. Don't check normally. Would have looked a right fool if I had made typos after having a go (tongue in cheek of course) at someone else.
The cuddy poly would give you a lot more storage room than our frontrunner too. Although we love the extra casting area and ease of getting to anchor. Can't have the best of both worlds I suppose [smiley=cool3.gif]

[Sportfish_5]

Are we being marked

[phewy]

8/10, could improve. Makes too many funny faces at teacher. [smiley=scholar.gif]

[SeaSaw]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I have done a lot of checking around today and decided to bite the bullet. I have signed a deal for the Yammy late this afternoon.
[smiley=laola.gif]
The decision ended up coming down to getting a good price on the Yammy (ended up being almost $2k less than the Suzi) and there aren't any Suzuki dealers on Brisbane northside, so service was a factor. I did come to the conclusion that the Suzi would have slightly more Torque, but in reality we are talking small margins not major differences. Price and service were the final deciders.

Now I can't wait to get back on the water. The engine will be going on some time next week, so it wont be long now

I hope me hasn't made any typos and me grammer is good. ???

Cheers,

Mark

[phewy]

Sounds like you made the right decision Mark, especially about the service factor. Would be the pits to lug a boat like yours around to a far away dealer after every 50-100hrs use. And costly. Don't think you can go wrong with a Yammi. Seem to be easily the most popular around.