Water in Fuel

[Grand_Marlin]

Real = Multiple Racor letdowns
Real = CAV Never letting me down, but strange things can happen, that I accept.
Real = the CAV filter 45lph, 2 micron, 10 micron, 10000000 micron or whatever, actually works in real life.....unbelievable, hey ??

Not real = ??? What dont I accept as real? You saying that I should not use CAV ?
Not real = your belief that CAV are not feasible for marine use.

Hands up who goes in and asks for filters by micron size?? (not me)
Hands up who goes in and asks for a filter to fulfill a certain requirement? (yes, me)
Hands up who expects the manufacturers / suppliers to know what they are talking about? (yes, me)

50ml of water in a Racor separator that holds about 300ml, does not constitute "full of water"

Incidentally, I have had a CAV 296 on a Bobcat that stalled the motor due to water totally filling the separator, but none went through the filter....strange, I would have thought that, the micron size aside, that pump pressure would have dragged it through... real x files stuff

Does anyone know what size water is?

Maybe we have bigger water in Tassie?

I cant comment on the Powder coating on the Racors, cos they never lasted on my boats long enough to start corroding....
Looks like they have more problems than just letting water through...

And you are dead right Mantaray... who would want to own an old 200 Suzuki?

Anyway, I'm going to talk about sharks.

Do you know anything about sharks Mantaray?
Bleeding Tuna?
Maybe you could join in.

Cheers

Pete

[Mantaray]

you talk about anything you like pete, if it's something i can comment on then i will join in, if i don't know then no won't get involved, that's the way it is, sharks or anything else feel free to talk about anything you want

and hands up those that are using filters have used filters without obviously knowing anything about them, totally amazing!

[Grand_Marlin]

Ok, well we seem to have narrowed the discussion down... thats good.

Lets agree to disagree on this then.

There are many filters available.... do your research, buy a filter that suits your purpose.

You use your filter, I will use my CAV - only one single filter, not in series or parallel.

No hard feelings Mantaray, each to their own.

Cheers

Pete

ps. I would still tow you home if your filter lets you down

[Mantaray]

Ok, well we seem to have narrowed the discussion down... thats good.

Lets agree to disagree on this then.

There are many filters available.... do your research, buy a filter that suits your purpose.

You use your filter, I will use my CAV - only one single filter, not in series or parallel.

No hard feelings Mantaray, each to their own.

Cheers

Pete

ps. I would still tow you home if your filter lets you down

Lets agree to disagree on this then.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] I think we can agree on that one

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] No hard feelings Mantaray, each to their own.

[smiley=thumbsdown.gif] ps. I would still tow you home if your filter lets you down

now i can't ever see that occuring well not since i took off the 296 anyway but then as of last wednesday week that was 21,683 litres ago and all through a single filter system .

[Grand_Marlin]

Man that 200 Suzuki has done some hours...

Actually, this raises another point... the amount of fuel we use.

All outboards use different amounts of fuel, but in Mantarays case, if you said that a 200 Suzuki chews on average, say 50 L / hr - planing and trolling etc, (might be more / might be less, but for demonstration purposes) then that only equates to 434 engine hours, or four years use.

21,000 L is a huge amount of fuel, but we are all using (give or take)somewhere near the same amount....

And that is only for our enjoyment purposes......

[HarryO]

Gee Harry that’s a stupid statement, you should at least run a RACOR water separator to strip out as much as you can, typical statement from someone that doesn't know a boat from a rubber ducky?

(No offence Harry)


Keh???

Call it stupid, and say "no offence"?

Missed this one... hmmmmm, I must be....


I've NEVER said, or recommended "not running a water trap"

Not doing so in a marine enviroment is foolish...


Where does the boat/ rubber ducky comparison comment
come from?

Now I'm starting to really feel like a dill...

Not getting picky, Pete, I do understand where you're
coming from..

The Ryco 2132P is a cross reference no. for the cav296.

Ryco, in none of their publications, list this for petrol use.
Ryco list their petrol filters as "petrol" and their diesel
filters as "fuel"...

It would be interesting to know if Ryco would stand behind
their warranty if damage was caused from using this in a
petrol/marine enviroment... (don't hold your breath)

The suffix "P" denotes "pleated paper", not petrol.

I've used the Racor unit (3213) in 2 boats personally,
(including current vessel), and serviced literally
dozens of boats with this unit, with no water issues ever
being raised...

(never had any similar problems with the cav units, either)

You won;t find media sediment in the bowl, as the media gets
"dissolved"

The wholesale price of the 3213 element is $34.
(gonna get into strife for saying that)

The retail price of the 3213 is $50, check with (Wondall rd
Marine), for the genuine Racor element.

If you're paying more than this, I suggest you shop around.

I change mine every 2 years, mainly due to corrosion on
the exterior of the element, and ALWAYS inspect the internals,
and have not once seen any internal corrosion...

If the filter was badly corroded internally, that filter has not
been serviced in quite a while, and there is a serious water
problem...

Pete, you're spot on with water gravity, so you can see why
I don't understand why this is happening, if the units are not
faulty, and to have 3 fail is quite amazing...

Why did you not take this up with your dealer, I've found the
Racor rep to be quite intelligent, and very eager to help..

Fuel flows into the bowl first (water gets trapped) before
passing thru the element into the head unit, and onto the
engine.

as you know, there are 4 ports in the head unit.
(2 are to be fitted with plugs)

If the plumbing was incorrect, with the inlet/outlet
on the same side, on the wrong side, then water
would readily flow to the engine..

I'm not saying you've done this, but it's one explanation.

Regards, Harry..

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day again Harry,

The biggest hurdle in this debate is the lack of available technical information.

I spoke with a Ryco Engineer in Melbourne today and found out a few more interesting things....

He says:

All Ryco filters are capable of handling diesel, petrol or petrol / oil mixes.

Some brands are lesser quality than others, and this is where any problems have come from, including water transfer and filter paper breaking down.

The "siliconisation" of the filter paper is what gives the best water protection. Whilst all filter elements will let water through, the quality of the silicon treatment is what sheds the water and creates a "water tension" barrier against it going through.
Hence the most likely explanation for the Racor filters letting me down, and also why the Bobcat filter didnt let water through.

None of these implied problems have occurred with a Ryco filter.

296 filters stripping oil from the petrol / oil mix is an old wives tale.

The CAV brand 296 filter elements are apparently the ones that are now recommended for diesel only, due to the potential breakdown of the filter paper due to sulpher in the petrol (funny that, I thought diesel had a higher sulphur content than petrol...).

CAV branded genuine 296 filters do not appear to be readily available (dont confuse the cav housing with the filter element... cav housing is fine)

He thoroughly recommends CAV for use in the Marine environment.

Lucas / Delphi filters are one and the same company, but he did not specifically know whether they had any break down problems with the paper element in their 296 filter. He had not heard of any.

And.... I forgot to ask him specifically about fuel flow ratings

The Ryco R2132P is a cross reference to the 296, but he states unequivically - different company, different manufacturing techniques, better quality.

Harry, I know you are not picking, and I appreciate your comments.. you are trying to help by pointing out possible causes.... you sound like you are a mechanic?

Trust me, I am no idiot (contrary to Mantarays belief) when it comes to setting these things up... they were all correctly installed.
First one I fitted myself on a 189 Yalta with a 90 Johnson Oceanrunner. Let water through and stalled the motor. Wouldnt start until dried out.

Second one (two filters actually) - dealer fitted to a 6.2 Kevlacat with twin 75 Mercs, running separate fuel systems. Let water through, stalled both motors... got one motor going to get us home... other wouldnt start until dried out. Replaced with CAV, no further problems.

Third one, 5.6 Hydrofield, fitted with a Johnson 130. This is the one that stuffed the motor. I was going to replace the Racor and didnt... bad mistake

Never again.....

In all honesty, I never thought of going direct to Racor.... Certainly gave the Supplier heaps, but to no avail. They supplied a replacement filter element, but I sold that boat (Yalta) not long after....

The Kevlacat and Hydrofield were both bought privately, second hand, so a bit hard to chase compensation.

Anyway, just what I had found out from a reliable source.

Cheers

Pete

[impulse492f]

HarryO,

I owe you a public apology; I never meant to insult your much appreciated comments. I was in a pissing contest with Mantaray. I used your comment and quoted it as Mantaray would have "Out of Context".

I have learnt my lesson and pissed off someone that can add vital insight into things that other can learn from.

Please accept my apology.

[impulse492f]

Back onto the subject.

I spoke to the BIAS people yesterday and there thoughts are go with the CAV system but use the Ryco filter as 2 micron "might" cause a problem and why buy the $50 bucks (I said $80 ) for a filter when the Ryco’s are $16 (BIAS price but cheaper elsewhere).

I bought the CAV with the Ryco element. The Ryco stats on the box (Fuel) and i also recall as Grand_Marlin said the filter itself had "Silicon Treated" printed on the casing.

I’m going out today to give it a little test (side note I’m trying to tune the carb’s on the DT85 2 cylinders are a damp black colour and 1 cylinders is washed with fuel with no carbon).

So I’m happy with my CAV decision and would like to thank all for the comments and suggestion.

[Mantaray]

HarryO,

I was in a pissing contest with Mantaray.

no that's your attitude problem. but at least when you open your mouth about something have something positive and constructive to say instead of trying to selectively smart. that's the problem with people with double standards impluse

[Mantaray]

and pete don't start this continuing ongoing ridiculous garbage, since when did i call you an idiot? come on man if you are that insecure and have to continuously throw in crap like some of the other wacks then your no better than them.

[propdinger]

lmao i love that you are never in the wrong mantaray

[Mantaray]

when i'm in the wrong buddy i'll tell you so but when wacks start opening their mouth without their brain engaged then they need to realize this. much the same as you a totally irrelevant and useless remark you've just added there that only aligns yourself with the dill brains who have a selective mind set attitude

yeah dill brains like you call it banter but you wouldn't know what banter was so when will the likes of you actually wake up to yourself?

[Mr__Bean]

yeah dill brains like you call it banter but you wouldn't know what banter was so when will the likes of you actually wake up to yourself?

And the crowd waves as Mantaray makes his way to the Sin Bin......

- Darren

[Mantaray]

like i said mr bean some of the insidious unwarranted stupid behaviour is totally irrelevant and unwarranted and yet people continue to be dill brains and the likes of you start calling for the sin bin, how stupid, one sided and selective can some be?

this rot needs to be stamped out and unless you are completely one sided then it's obvious who to start with, not your obvious mr bean but the real obvious, those that try to be smart wacks simply and only for that purpose

the inciting behaviour for no apparent reason by some simply has to be stomped out and this should be directed to those that engage in low life totally irrelvant jibes that serve no purpose other than attempting to incite

so mr bean unless you know what equally is then your comments are totally useless, irrelevant out way out of line! all your doing is to continue the inciting dill brain trend that has obviously taken off here in plague proportion