Sad thing is if you took it to court you may lose on the fact it is a case of 'Buyer beware'
Sad thing is if you took it to court you may lose on the fact it is a case of 'Buyer beware'
Ok so the real questions now areOriginally Posted by Kerry
- What was the actual weight on the scales? How was it weighed?
- 1/4 tank! How big is the tank?
- What does the trailer plate say. Take particular note if the weight is ATM or GTM (this is important)
Regards, Kerry.
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Kerry,
The weighbridge ticket says 2020kgs with the trailer free standing, with it attatched to the car it says 1960kgs, I presume this gives a tow ball loading of 60kgs. I dont know if the regulations require it to be free standing or not.
The fuel tank is 230ltrs, so 1/4 tank of fuel would be roughly 40kgs
I dont know what the trailer plate says, I will have to find that out, but speaking to Redco (the trailer manufacturer) they say that my trailer can carry more than 2000kgs if the brakes are upgraded.
Tony,
Brake requirements are based on 2000kg GTM, which is the combined weight of the trailer and the load (boat and all associated things in boat in this case). Now if you had (or could put) 200kg towball weight then the ATM would be 2,200 kg and as long as the GTM was 2000kg or less then you can get away with over run brakes even though the ATM is over 2000kg.
Over 2000kg GTM then you require brakes on ALL axles/wheels, break-away and operated from the drivers seat.
As for Redco? What are they saying the trailer is "cabable" (strong enough) of carrying more with the proper brakes?
But if the trailer plate currently states 2000kg then 2000kg is it regardless of the brakes unless of course redco are going to re-plate the trailer for you.
Would be interesting to have the actual wording of the trailer plate? The key words to look for are ATM and/or GTM.
Regards, Kerry.
Re Upspecing trailers.
I am talking from my own experience having very recently gone thru the process of upspecing my trailer; a Tinka, like Redco manufactured by Mayfair.
It was taken from
1990kgs with 4 wheel over-ride activation to
2500kgs with electric over hydraulic activation with breakaway brake operation and in car operation controlling the two axle 4 wheel hydaulic disc brakes.
Mayfair privided a letter specifying the upgrade which was presented to Qld Transport who upgraded their records pertaining to the trailer and duely, after only one reminder, issued a new regn label with 2500kg as the weight. They, and the trailer, have the same VIN but have just changed their records.
There was no need to change the plate on the trailer just upgrade the information. At the the end of the day all that would need to be changed is the 1990 to 2500 kg Every thing else thats going to start a problem is clearly visible. The 2500kg wt is on the label and all the police have to do is check the usuals on the trailer if there is any doubt.
My over ride hydraulics pulled the rig up with out any problems but that was not the issue. I didn't want some clown hitting me and my insurer and QT and the police having any issue with the legality and / presentation of the rig I was in charge of. No way am i running uninsured on the road in current traffic condition particularly on the Gold Coast.
At the the end of the day all I wanted was to ensure that the authorities including my insurer updated their records and I was deemed to be legal; which no doubt is what we all we want.
Kerry and I have already discussed towbars and vehicle towing capacities so we don't need to do that again.
Why do retailers sell with cheaper trailers?
Obviously they sell to a price and most buyers don't shop very well other than what isthe cheapest.
Caveat emptor isn't supposed to apply anymore but I reckon it does.
Oh Happy Days
Chimo
What could go wrong.......................
Tony,
If I was you, I'd be taking it off consignment and straight back to dealer who sold you it, and make out like you werent selling it (not that it should matter anyway) and just found out that he has put your family at risk and demand it fixing at his expense or you'll bring in the authorities.
Be firm but polite, and go for it, youve nothing to lose and it all to gain.
Good Luck
Rgds
Ron
Sorry,
But I think if the dry weight of the vessel and trailer is under the max then the dealer has done no wrong.....
Sure, its not very ethical and in reality its not right, but he has complied with the law in the sense of the product as it stands, in his yard.
He doesn't know if you intend to moor the vessel etc or how much fuel you will put in it or how much gear you will stow in it. These things are beyond his control.
I'm not saying I agree with the situation, but strictly and legally speaking the dealer has complied with the legislation. He would be in trouble if the dry weight of the vessel and trailer exceeded the maximum. Other than that he is clear.
Cheers,
Nicholas
BM
something to think about
The dealer has to sell a product fit for use. it is not really fit for use if you are not able to fuel up and load your gear in and head down to the boat ramp.
its like buying a ute but cant put anything in the tray.
geof
You've seen those puncie nancy-boy utes on the road too eh Geoff. You know, the ones with 20" $4,500 wheels, air bag suspension and tray backs (with carpet) that don't even have a tie rail on them..going along the road with dooof dooof coming out of them..what's the use of them??? Can't even take the rubbish to the tip or put a pallet of bricks on the back....useless
On a different note though what would have happened if you took a few rods, some prawns and a few jerry cans and filled up the boat before it left the yard?? (I'd be on my way to the water straight from the yard if I was ever able to buy such a rig...not wasting time in going home first)
Would the dealer allow you to leave in an illegal rig??
If it's going to be moored why would anybody buy a trailer that size??
Why buy a trailer at all. Wouldn't the boat be delivered to the water??
The trailer would be a mongrel to store somewhere. Might as well have a boat on it's back.
Well, in this case, I drove away from his yard with 1/3rd tank of fuel(which he provided) plus safety gear, which is heavier than when it was just weighed. I estimate that the boat was in the region of 2033kgs as I drove it from his yard, so he knew I was illegal at the time. What would have happened if I had an accident coming out of his gate?
If you buy a new car, do you check every aspect of it to make sure it complies with the ADR, or do you quite rightly assume that it does?
eg, the tyres on a car are not rated for an empty car with no fuel, they are rated for the maximum allowable payload for that particular vehicle plus some safety margin, even tho the dealer might think you are never going to put anything in it.
If a fuel tank on a trailer boat has a capacity of 230ltrs, and a 6 adult plus gear payload, then if the dealer does not take in to account a full fuel tank, plus gear for 6 people, ie its maximum rated weight, then imo he is shonky and negligent at best, and basically criminal by putting other peoples lives at risk.
So do you think that dealers such as this have no duty of care regarding the safety of their customers in the eyes of the law?Sad thing is if you took it to court you may lose on the fact it is a case of 'Buyer beware'
If you buy second hand there is probably more truth in that, but when buying new, you are relying on the expertise of the dealer to provide you with the appropriate advice on safety and legal issues. >
Discuss the matter face to face with the dealer and request a solution.
If no success....................
If you know someone who is a solicitor (if not pay one) to send the dealer who sold you the boat a letter stating.
1. The facts as you have outlined.
2. Your required solution to the problem.
3. A time to respond to the letter.
You may be surprised just how quickly you can get resolution.
If no response pursue the issue with Qld Transport ( he falsified the rego application), trailer manufacturer (it's their name on the problem) the boat manufacturer ( poor form to have their boat sitting on a time-bomb), the BIAQ ( if he is a member then they may be able to lean on him).
Don't give up, use every option at your disposal.
Regards Cameron.
The more people who are aware of these legalities, the batter, as it will pull the dishonest dealers into line.
Good Topic. Get the dealers straight!
In saying that, there are more honest dealkers than not, and we should respect the ones that do the right thing. The thing is that most peopl will take the cheaper option without being too conerced about the consequences.
Cheers Sandsy
Well, in this case, I drove away from his yard with 1/3rd tank of fuel(which he provided) plus safety gear, which is heavier than when it was just weighed. I estimate that the boat was in the region of 2033kgs as I drove it from his yard, so he knew I was illegal at the time. What would have happened if I had an accident coming out of his gate?
If you buy a new car, do you check every aspect of it to make sure it complies with the ADR, or do you quite rightly assume that it does?
eg, the tyres on a car are not rated for an empty car with no fuel, they are rated for the maximum allowable payload for that particular vehicle plus some safety margin, even tho the dealer might think you are never going to put anything in it.
If a fuel tank on a trailer boat has a capacity of 230ltrs, and a 6 adult plus gear payload, then if the dealer does not take in to account a full fuel tank, plus gear for 6 people, ie its maximum rated weight, then imo he is shonky and negligent at best, and basically criminal by putting other peoples lives at risk.
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Some very relevant points there Tony. Unfortunately, my industry has a long way to go in order to get somewhere remotely close to the standards applicable to vehicles...
If you had an accident your insurance company could void you if they found out there as no breakaway unit fitted and ultimate liability would fall on you. Of course you could attempt to drag the dealer into it but I think you would lose on those grounds as its the responsibility of th eperson towing something to ensure him or herself that the item being towed complies with the relevant legislation in the state in which it is being operated. I don't think it would hold water in court if you said "Well, he sold it to me so I ASSUMED it was compliant". Harsh yes, but true.
HOWEVER, I wonder whether any statute of limitations could possibly apply in this case particularly if the package is still precisely as you purchased it and therefore can be weighed and proven. ALTHOUGH, if it came down to 1/3 of a tank of juice being the deciding factor for the overweight then you could have a real problem. And the argument would be there that the dealer says it ws empty when supplied and you say it wasn't. No proof either way unless independant witnesses can be sought.
Have you weighed the rig precisely as you bought it but without the fuel? That is the most important measurement. If thats under 2000kg then you may struggle, HOWEVER it would depend how the court viewed such a tight tolerance which really does not allow for the correct loading of the vessel.
Dragging the trailer manufacturer into (as suggested by someone) in my view is not productive for your claim and in fact I see it as irrelevant. They build the things, they are not required to police what boats are put onto their trailers and once again, that is beyond their control.
Likewise the boat manufacturer has no control over the trailer their product sits on, so no point going there either. Your claim rest squarly on the shoulders of the dealership.
Remember, the dealer buys the hull, sources a trailer, sources the engine and then options as he sees fit or as per customer request. Some exceptions apply in terms of pre-packaged deals from some manufacturers at some times.
Regards,
Nicholas
Then I believe many dealers have to lift their game! There is simply not enough margins in the 2000kg trailer for dealers to play petty politics and basically condone inappropriate safety.
This thing about claiming a rig is tow legal when it leaves the dealers under weight but with bugga all fuel is not only unethical but also totally not acceptable. This excuse is laughable as the rig is capable of carry X amount of fuel and must be included in the TOTAL overall weight. It's quite franly a stupid situation to claim legal tow weight with a boat with bugga all fuel, come on that's simply stupid.
The dealer can not control any down stream add ons, which are the responsibility of the buyer, this being all the sundries including ice boxes, ice etc etc.
In any case a component dealer should realize this simple fact and actually the right thing to do is make consultative allowance for this by at least making the buyer aware BEFORE taking procession.
With a new boat purchase most buyers can't see too much past the shine and glitter and getting on the water and unfortuneately most dealers don't let this get in the way either >
This type of situation simply has to stop and obviously there are many many boats out there on the road that are simply illegal. The types of boats some dealers are (knowingly) putting through the gate on sub standard capacity trailers is simply no longer acceptable.
Regards, Kerry.
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