Berlying/Cubing a Gamble?

[bidkev]

What's your thoughts on this. I appreciate that you shouldn't berley on a fast running tide but even with little current isn't it a gamble?

Fish meeting a berley/cube trail (from whatever position) have two choices.....follow it downtide or follow it uptide.....well, 3 actually, they can also choose to ignore it :-)

As swimming downtide is an easier option in regards to energy conservation for the fish, isn't it more than likely that they will follow the trail in this direction? If this holds true aren't you therefore enticing them away from your bait? Admitted, if they do swim uptide following your trail, then you at least have a better chance of holding them, but aren't the majority more likey to follow it downtide?

And even more puzzling, and we probably have no way of knowing........just because we *are* catching whilst berleying, and therefore giving validity to the theory that berley entices fish, isn't it possiible that we could be catching even more if we didn't have those fish following the trail downtide?

Am I missing something as I have lately begun to think that this is a real possibility? My best catch (quantity) was produced on a day when I *didn't* cube.

cheers

kev

[Jeremy]

Kev,

I think most fish would follow a burley trail up-current to try to find its source and also to get the juicy bits before other fish get a chance to get them ie get to them first.

Cheers,

Jeremy

[CQ_Fisher]

Kev,

I would be inclined to agree with Jeremy. Nature is a wierd and wonderful thing and i would think that there would be some kind of instinct programmed into a fish that would make it swim up-tide to try and find the source, just in the same way that a shark would follow a blood trail to locate its prey. Just my thoughts, but bloody good thoughts at that .

Cheers,
JD

[damons33]

whats that m-people song? the only way is up!
most animals on this planet hunt into the wind! except man i guess.
damon

[Serge.]

Fish will always move towards the source. The only occasion i can imagine they will move down a berley trail is if you have been burleying excessively. The trick is to attract and not to feed. i find that when i am berleying for large pelagics that i will keep a stream of small particles - usually chook pellets - flowing to keep bait fish and lots activity in close. Then into this drop in sporadic cubes. The bait fish feeding madly will attract predators who become more aggressive when they get the occasional free bit of feed - cubes. Drop a nice big chunk of flesh into the melee and hang on. But again, i cant say this enough, don't feed, just attract. Your baited hook in the trail should be the only choice available to your target.

[Tony_N]

Two bits to the answer i reckon

Cubes will arrive at the fish FROM upcurrent - untuitively logical for the fish to reckon then that the source is upcurrent. same with mulched burley, but in that case as the fish goes upcurrent the trail is less dissipated, ie more concentrated. Conversely as the fish goes down current, the signal becomes weaker (more spread out). solution? turn around and swim back to my hook!

[bidkev]

Thanks for the responses guys and I guess what is being said is that fish have an inbuilt "instinct" to follow uptide just as it is thought that animals hunt their prey from downwind.

What I was getting at though is that this can surely only be an assumption by us humans. As Tony said, it can only seem intuitively logical, but do fish possess the capacity for logic and intuition? Do sharks always follow the blood trail to the prey, or is it just that we have seen this in movies, documentaries, and the like? How many may actually follow it downtide if, (as I'm putting the question) we have got it wong and the fish doesn't possess this logic/intuition/inbuilt knowledge? Has there been any actual scientific research/filming that can *prove* that fish have this capacity? I can't find any and have always accepted the burley theory simply because the "text books" stated it's benefits.

I tend to think that they sense food and begin to feed, as long as the feed is coming to them, do they have a *real* need to move either way? All they need to do is just sit there and feed as it drifts down to them. The only reason I see for them to move at all, is if the berley is pilchard oil, or some other "slick" that titillates their senses but provides them with no real sustenance.

Other than seeing an actual filming of how fish react, I am sceptical of any burley which provides solids, being beneficial to an angler.

I *do* burley, but always ensure that all solids are mashed to the extent that they become simply a cloud of the smallest particles possible escaping from the bucket, and I also keep that which cannot be mashed that small, inside the bucket in the hope that it will provide a slick and nothing more.

The text books tell us to feed as lightly as possible, to provide enough feed simply to keep the fish interested. Why the need to feed 'em at all, *and*, if the slick is enough to titillate, *and* it is assumed that a fish will always follow uptide, If they can be kept interested with pillly oil, why risk overfeeding, even with the smallest of particles?

Hope it's gotcha thinking 'cause it's haunted me for years :-)

cheers

kev

[Fishinmishin]

Serge, youve got it right. I always burley with a trail of pilchard cubes. Remember pelagics roam and so with a current you can line a trail for well over a km. The faster the current the faster you feed it and vice versa. My method is to put a live bait out the back and spin the trail with metals while my mate feeds out a cube with his hook in it into the trail. I usually drop a cube every 3 retreives of my lure. This works a treat. And yes, they do swim up current to find where the gold at the end of the rainbow. When fishing for bottom dwelling fish, if the tides run to strong you my be doing yourself damage as by the time the burley reaches the depts of the fish, it's gathered them behind the next guys boat for him to catch. A common occurance at Harry's and estuary fishing, so watch for me fishing behind someone donating to my fishing.

[Sean]

Well a bit off the point, but 'the only way is up' was actually sung by 'Yazz and the plastic population'. m-people sung 'moving on up' sorry I just couldn't go on without correcting you ??? sean

[Cheech]

Surge, I gave your theory a go yesterday fishing a wreck off Morton. No offence, but it sucked. (no offence remember)

Have always used cubes and only used pellets in really shallow, but gave it a go and mixed it up.

After starting with just cubes, about 6 undersize squire and then one that went 38cm for dinner, and then something really big that I dropped after not getting a good hookup, I tried the pellets theory, but then spent the next 2 hours getting nothing apart from little stripy fish. As well, they picked all my bait clean.

I think in deeper water I will stick with cubes, and pellets for shallow.

Still, you never know if you don't have a go.

[digger]

Suggestions on Berley for attracting Luderick, I Have never fished with a Berley (Land Based) digger.
D.

[Gorilla_in_Manila]

Digger,
http://www.ausfish.com.au/luderick.html
Good luck.
Cheers
Jeff