Bait presentation

[Burley_Boy]

I'm currently interested in how people in here present their bait and why. When I started fishing I used to fish with my hooks embedded in the bait, It was not until shown better ways of presenting bait for a decent hookup that I changed to better practices.
I recently saw Jeffos dacron thread for livies and started looking at different ways of hooking a livie and found an immense variation of methods.

I figure the bait presentation is certainly a key to great fishing as if you don't get a fish interested enough for a hookup then its pretty unimportant how expensive you reel or boat is.
A picture is worth a#thousand words so If some of you talented people took some shots of how you present your bait for particular species I think this could be a really interesting post. # [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[mini696]

Great topic!!

These aren't really specific presentation techniques, but more or less what I think through before casting.

1. What predators am I targeting?? Will I be trolling livies? Will they attack from above or below, head or tail?? This determines the hook position. As a personal preference I like to use wide gape hooks for livies.
2. Should I use two hooks?? (Single through the nose and treble up the rear passage).
3. How can I prevent the bait from rotating?? Instead of having a square, thin (thickness) piece of bait on if I cut it longer and thinner (width) will that help prevent rotation?
4. Where is the point of the hook? Is it in a position to snag the lip or the snodger fish, or is it hidden and burried? I like to keep the point on the flesh side (not skin) of fillets.
5. Can I hide the hook? I like to use a small bead and bit of red tube to trick the fish into thinking the hook is part of the bait.
6. Will the livie I'm using try to hide under my boat or float?? If so I cut the bottom of its tail fin to force it to swim down. I cut the top of the tail fin if the bait trys to bury itself in the mud.

Their the main points. Just quickly written down. Nothing earth-shattering-ly new...

Hope it helps.

[Jeremy]

well written mini. Main points to me are making sure the bait isn't going to spin and making sure the hook is free to penetrate when the bait is taken.

Jeremy

[mini696]

One of my pet hates is a rotating bait. I have a theory on bait spinning around. Its a bit long-winded but bear with me...

I read a recent article on Canetoads, they reckon Crows, and other birds have learnt they can eat Canetoads and survive by flipping the toad on his back and eating everything but its skin.

They learnt this by seeing one bird eat a Canetoad that way and not dying. #So over time they copied and showed their young how to do this and therefore have another food source.

Relate these type of instincts to fish. #One fish sees another eat a rotating bait. #He sends panic signals through the water as he gets a hook in his guts (as well as dissapearing in a blink). #So over time again the fish learn "rotating food is bad, don't take it". They then show their young and pass it on through generations.

This applys to all things (bunched bait, rotating bait, old smelly bait etc). The fish (especially ones located in popular spots) are taking natural baits all the time (natural looking, smelling, acting) and they don't get a hook in their mouth. #But sometimes they see that funny bait and take it, get caught, and maybe (hopefully) returned. If this happens often enough they learn not to take that type of bait, and again pass this knowledge to their young (or fellow school members).

Remember fish run on instinct (ONLY) they have NO intelligence (I can't stress that enough). #Its the old saying "Think like the fish", forget what you would do if you saw that bait, think "What would I do if I was a fish"

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

and take note of how the kirby on a hook effects the presentation of its point.

a kirby hook has the point of the hook offset to the shank in profile.

If you have the kirby correct on a livie, gang etc, the point presents to the outside of the baitfish, incorrect & it lies along its side with poor chance of hookup. On the other side of the coin if fishing gangs on pillies for bream that pick the guts out, using the kirby to present to the gut may be desireable.

[jeffo]

for trolling dead baits, live baits and lures... KEEP EVERYTHING CENTRAL!! an un evenly weighted bait means its gunna spin or track sideways!!

[Fishinmishin]

Over the years, correct bait presentation has increased my catch rates by 200%+. I've found by trialing different methods at different times and always keeping an open approach I can always improve and suprise myself and others with catch rates. One thing that led me to disregaurd the saying that fish only act upon instinct, which means they don't have the ability to self teach new methods or habits, is when I put a Bass I caught in my aquarium. As I released it a week later I watched it swim off a meter only to return back a meter and swim out a meter again. This went on for about 5 mins until my guilt made me throw the fish into the middle of the dam. If anyone sees this fish in the middle of Hinze Dam still swiming back and forth, please troll the fish for a couple of hours for me. (PS-1mt is the length of me tank).

[Burley_Boy]

Cool story fishnmishn, Did the poor bastard spend the first week slamming into the side of your tank?

Well back on bait presentation I'll just make a comment on what I learnt recently.
It was news to me at the time in any case so hopefully it adds to the arsenal of info for someone else too.
I've been using Circle hooks for offshore fishing but never really understood why...The hook is designed with the point facing the shank and thus the idea is that it slides down the inside of the fish without hooking up. You should thus avoid striking but as you instead gently increase the drag as the fish swims off the bait starts sliding out of the fish and the hook rolls out of the fish ensuring a clean hookup in the corner of the mouth. Apparently a hook that has been used by longliners for years as the fish hooks itself.

Really cool to understand how this hook works and why I should amend my method of striking to suit the hooktype.

[Fishinmishin]

To elaborate further on your very valid point, I have found that the circle hooks with the best hook-up rate have always been ones where the point of the hook points directly at the eye(as per drawing far left). When pressure is pulled on the eye (especially when eye is set at an angle) it draws the point towards the eye if the eye if set forward which rotates the point through the flesh(pic far left & right) or if the eye is set backward it rotates the point downward ensuring a good exposed point to hookup(2nd from left). Good method when allowing the bait to be swallowed before striking.
With the hook 2nd from the right, by pulling the hook straight out without influencing a rotation, the bend of the hook can slide along the fishes insides rather than catching the point.
The hook in the middle is a true circle hook but without any angle set on the eye, the hook could have trouble setting anywhere but on the side of the mouth and only when the fish is side on to the Tension of the line thus being very popular with long liners, fishing with rods in holders, with heavy lead or without free spooling(all methods of constant line tension).
Well thats my best attempt at hooks 101. I fish with all those styles of hooks at times and although I gave hook 2nd from right a hard time(Black magic 6/0) it has been effective for me showing no rules are set in stone.
Remember, the hook is the most important influence of catching fish or not. The hook CATCHES the fish. The bait, burley and spot may bring the fish to your hook and all the other expensive gear mean nothing if there is not a fish attached to the hook. Quality hooks, fine diameter with good strength, same size gape and bite and chem sharpened.
Damn, that was long spiel about hooks. Sorry

[Fishinmishin]

hooks

[cuzzamundi]

g'day all,

i fish in summer with poddies and herring, targeting jacks flatties barra etc and never seem to get the anount of strikes it deserves. i've found it hard too actually hook up when i do get strikes. i know this is vagur, but what could be worng? i usually put a 2/0 mustad through the shoulder on a 50cm trace - 30pd nylon leader with 10pd fireline. could my bait be sircling like you suggested? any advice would be great. thanks heaps.

cuzza

[Fishinmishin]

30lb leader is a bit heavy for my liking in that situation. It's easy to spot, catches the current and hinders the natural swim of the fish as does a heavy sinker. I know the jacks will run your line over snags but try a lighter leader if possible. Ensure the hook is just infront of the 1st dorsal spike and Just nicking the flesh (not down near spine). If fishing near snaggy bottom, try chopping off the top 1/2 of tail fin or if on float chop bottom 1/2 off to ensure remains in strike zone and not under cover or float. If getting strikes but not hookups, try putting a stinger hook near its butt hole. If your bait is circling in the current then it's either dead or your fishing currents too strong as they should be able to swim where dropped and ensure your using hooks here the eye runs straight with a straight hook shank(2nd from right from hook pic)
Hope this might help.

[cuzzamundi]

g'day fishinmishin,
thanks heaps mate, i'll take heed. just wondering what pound leader you'd recommend then. also, what's the best way to get a stinger hook on the rig? sorry for bothering you again mate, and thanks heaps for the advice. all the best.

cuzza

[Fishinmishin]

pic1

[Fishinmishin]

pic2