Do Muddies Escape from Pots ???.

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

....against the law to have a crab pot with no chance of escape?????????????????????????????????????? never ever heard of that one!!
.......turn your pots upside down???????????????

not a wise move, certainly not!!!!!!! That would defeat the design purpose of many crab pots! Contain your bait within the confines of the centre of the pot and allow your pot to sit flat on the sea/river floor and not resting on mangrove roots and there is no problem with crabs eating from outside or from on top of your pot.

[bidkev]

double post sorry

[bidkev]

<snip>
.......turn your pots upside down???????????????

not a wise move, certainly not!!!!!!! . That would defeat the design purpose of many crab pots! Contain your bait within the confines of the centre of the pot and allow your pot to sit flat on the sea/river floor and not resting on mangrove roots and there is no problem with crabs eating from outside or from on top of your pot.

If you're referring to my post, the turning of the pot upside down is to facilitate the stitching in of the modified funnel after you have stitched shut the manufactured one. The modified funnel can't be stitched into the top of a rectangular pot because that is where you gain access.

As for crabs not being able to reach through the pot? I don't know what you're getting at here? I've watched 'em do it and 9 times out of 10 that's why bait is missing with no crabs in the pot.....the reason many folk think their pots have been raided. Bog standard rectangular pots (and some round ones) are not high or wide enough to prevent crabs reaching the bait holder. Simply pinning one end/side of the bait holder to the centre/floor of the pot, or threading a bait pin through a frame allows the other end/side of the bait holder or the frame to rise up or to the side with the tide. I was making the point that holders need securing at both ends to prevent this. We work the cheap pots in this manner, with confidence, and can always guarantee a feed (daily) when camping at the pin.

kev

[major-defect]

Definetly! I've had the same experience as Rhetly.

[lock]

I have seen them getting out when I have come up to them at low tide. I always used the cheap rectangular pots due to the fact people knock the good ones off. I cable tie one side of the funnel to the side of the pot and check every 1 to 2 hrs always got a decent feed . I also made some small mesh bait holders to sit in centre of the pot so the crab has to fully get inside to get at bait. I also used to go crabing with a bloke who just used tins of cat food with holes puched in they seemed to work well .

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Wasn't refering to your post Kingtin. I went searching for it this morning, but no luck. Without reading what you posted about stitching a new funnel in your pot, I can't comment on your thoughts, apart from I think that you have made a good pot much better, covering more angles. I will search for it again soon.
Crabbing is like most fishing scenes, the more you think about it, the more you understand it. I commercially crabbed for a number of years with 50 crab pots and learnt a great deal of simple tactics that reflect strongly on crabbing results. To this post, yes, crabs can escape, but usually from cheap pots or galvanised pots with stiff rigid funnel entrances. Modern day commercial style pots are almost flawless in design when it comes to escaping crabs.
A crab pot can be too small for reasons that vary from- a crab being able to reach inside, if the mesh size allows him too.
- too small inside so that not enough crabs feel comfortable to walk inside, and because of the pecking order that exists with mudcrabs, they are very likely to walk away from the pot instead. If a pot isn't very high, crabs can walk onto the top of the pot and just sit there, trying there best to grab the bait that sits so very close to their eye balls, even if the bait is tied fast to the bottom.
A good crab pot is a pot that has a larger internal volume, is approximately atleast 30 cm high, and has side walls that from the centre are wider than a crabs reach, or mesh size that stops a crab from reaching inside. Two, or 4 entrances bring equal results, and it all then comes down to correct placement of the pot in regard to tide flow. Funnels should face up and down tide, as the scent from the bait is washed with the flowing water. Crabs that smell the scent walk quite quickly to the bait, directly following the scent trail which has hit their noses at almost ground level. Upon reaching the pot, the way in is presented directly to the crab without him having to search for a way to get closer to the bait. Down tide funnel placement allows a crab to continue his walk to the bait, and to a crab, a funnel is just an obstacle in his path. Crabs walk into pots, they do not swim in, and a good funnel is a funnel that allows little disturbance to the crabs path of travel and one that also allows scent and visual contact with the bait as well.
If a crab approaches a pot with funnels facing cross tide, he will stuff about and try to walk around the pot. When he loses scent, he walks straight back on the down tide side to again smell the scent of the food he wishes to 'own'! He may try to walk over a small pot, and it may be possible that he will stay on top and dream, he may try to tear at the mesh, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,if a bigger crab comes along, the first crab is most likely to walk off and you will never get to see those 2 crabs in your pot. If the funnels were set up/down tide, the first crab would have walked straight in, followed by the second crab etc. I have witnessed this, filmed this and have played with crab pots in the mangroves in crystal clear winter water. I have even had mud crabs run away from other crabs whilst trying to get in the pot and the lesser crab that has bolted has swum,run and hid beside my feet. Needless to say he was captured.
Many times, recreational pots sit at 45degrees to flat, resting on mangrove roots or logs, stumps, rocks etc. Crabs can feed from beneath if the pot allows, but usually, the pot will be pulled with nothing inside as crabs have no way of entering unless they stumble onto an entry point. In these instances, the main crab that seems to have the ability to access these pots are female crabs, just something I noted in those situations. Lowering crabpots to the bottom instead of throwing them over is a wise move so you can feel the pot touch the bottom. If it bangs down on a root, shift it until it lays flat. Take an extra 20 seconds to correctly lay your pot and the results will increase dramatically.
Most pots are designed in such a way as to allow a crab a clear and unrestricted entry to the pot. Many are not designed to gain the same results if used upside down. Many new commercial type pots have funnel strings that are way too tight. If you have difficulty pushing your fist through the funnel it is too tight. Loosen it. Crabs feel for holes and contours with their feet. Watch a crab in your pot as the tide drops and you will notice his legs working your pot to find a gap or a hole or some thing that may allow him to move off to where he wants to. The tips of his legs will work overtime looking for an opening. If he discovers a small hole, he may try to push through it. If he discovers a funnel exit, he may just as easily walk free. Many pots, the commercial $50 type especially are designed to have a captured crab constantly walking away from or past a funnel exit point, even if he is upside down on the roof. Simpler pots will see a captured crab find the exit with much more ease. The larger a funnel entrance, or the looser the mesh, the easier it is for a crab to escape. Many cheap pots are improved with cable ties to gather extra mesh and to reduce the size of the entrance or to simply tighten the mesh ramps that the crab walks on to enter. Nylon mesh pots work better as it 'feels' more natural to a crab than a steel mesh pot. There is a fine line between letting a crab in and also allowing him to escape with ease. Water rats also destroy nylon mesh pots and consume or take the whole bait from a pot. Razor sharp teeth will bite most nylon strings and rubber products. They grow as big as a cat and are very strong. They frequent mangrove areas and can also take your baits at high tide whilst free swimming in your pot, bite through your mesh and run off into the bush with your whole bait bag etc. I have witnessed that also.
If you are concerned with your funnels on your pots, you may have to try to fix them or to check your pots more often, but remember,,,,,,,,,,, crabs spook easily in heavily crabbed areas, and often if you check pots too often, you run the risk of not catching some more wiser, easily startled crabs.
I hope this may help some people to understand the whole crabbing issue a litle better. Sometimes on this site it takes a lot of effort to explain or expand on topics to help out. Often 'time' is the problem, and a great deal is often left out because of this. Many more pages could be written on crabbing, but this is atleast a start with everyones contributions all benefiting others. Keep it up Australia!
Regards,
Johnny Mitchell

[bidkev]

Sorry about the stuff up Johnny, Hope I didn't waste too much of your time as it looks like you need it writing such lengthy posts I was on the wrong thread. I saw your response and thought it was referring to this as I'd posted about turning a pot upside down.

http://147.202.71.34/forum/YaBB.cgi?...50274809/15#15

Thanks for taking the time to respond further, and at great length, in a most informative manner. You illustrate well just what is so often seen......folk just chucking their pots over the side instead of placing 'em with care. A good post mate, thanks, and when I'm cold, wet and miserable, or perhaps just simply hung over, I'll remember your post and put a little more thought into my crabbing.

kev

[shayned]

Just a thought if funnel placement is this important, would a small vane attached to the top of the pot to ensure the pot orientates to the tide flow as it is lowered be of help?

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

All good Kingtin.
Shayned, nothing beats the control of man power. An added extra may help, but it is not required.
Johnny

[lippa]

never had a crab escape from my pot yet! they go orange and once there cool, they taste yummy too!!

cheers


lippa

[Blackened]

G'day
Haha nice one lippa. Also helps if their still tied up hey?. As for johnny, thanks for a great post, very informative.
Dave