Reply With QuoteGive me a hoy madman - I'm here most of the time.
Good luck Jim, would love to hear you've had success on your slider.
OK - there is a post dealing with casting technique etc running that I can't add anything to as the suggestions are all good. What I'll talk about here is casting direction when spinning lures.
Chris made the point early in this post about casting parralel with the break and retrieving the lure behind the breaking waves just past the drop off into the gutter. It is a very good suggestion and was a timely reminder to me to include the technique back into the bag of tricks that it had fallen out of.
Rule no. 1 with casting direction - cast into the wind.
Generally the sweep direction and wind direction are going to be the same. Not always but generally. Casting into the wind allows the angler to maintain control of the lure when retrieving with minimal ballooning of the line and maximum tension on the lure. When casting so that the lure ends up down wind or past the perpendicular, control over the lure is lost and it tends to travel too quickly and bounce out of the water due to the large ballooning of the line that the wind will cause. Wave action will also contribute to a loss of control as the line is washed 'downstream' by the waves further increasing lure speed. (probably not such a bad thing for guys spinning with alveys)
Now casting into the wind has obvious repercussions as far as distance on the cast. Or does it? Well no for guys who are competent casters. Think of the lure as a javelin - world records are set when throwing into the breeze. This is due to the breeze holding the javelin tip up and prolonging the flight time. The same principle applies to an elongated slug. The key is to punch with the right hand (right handers) the lure out with force at a trajectory of about 30 degrees directly into the onshore breeze. The slug (if travelling straight and not tumbling) will go for about 40 metres under the force of the cast before the wind gets a hold of it and lifts the slug to a trajectory of about 40 degrees where it stays until gravity and the wind eventually combine to bring the slug down. Casts of 100 metres or more into 20 knot winds are well and truly achievable although it won't come off every time. Critical to maintaining control of the trajectory is to instead of casting so that the rod points to the sky during the cast, it is pointing more towards Tasmania ( right handed east coast anglers) Bit like Viv Richards in the covers running out Geoff Boycott (could watch that over and over) To achieve suitable punch on the cast it is important to treat the cast like a fly fisherman - when the weight of the lure reaches the furtherest point on the back cast is when to load up the rod with that weight and a forceful slinging action results.
Practice makes perfect here. But remember to wait until the lure is at its furtherest point back and you can feel the weight of the lure on your casting finger.
Rule no. 2 - always unless desperate use rule no. 1
There will be more info tomorrow (JD's are taking effect now) on retrieval methods.
Lindsay
PS - you gotta feel sorry for Parra - not!!
Give me a hoy madman - I'm here most of the time.
Great read Lindsay!
So for the promised info on retrieval methods - I must have been pi$$ed.
Chris and I both spoke about slow retrieves and drop backs earlier although we don't seem to agree as to which fish respond best to what.
In essence it doesn't really matter as various speeds and drop backs (I like that Chris - do you have copyright on it?) should be employed during any spinning session until the speed that the fish like on that given day is ascertained. If the fish go off the chew after success with a particular speed then revert back to different speed retrievals although the chances are that the fish have left the gutter.
When spinning from headlands and boats, I find that the following method works better than any other for tailor and some other species but isn't always the case.
Pull the bail arm across early as described earlier in 'casting direction', and skim the slug across the surface at high speed for 10 - 15 metres before backing the speed right off to an amble. At the same time as the speed drops, lift the rod tip to vertical if need be so as to have the slug dribbling across the surface at low speed. The slug must be on the surface for this to work. Usually the drop back and surface dribble will entice the tailor to strike soon after the change of pace. This method in my opinion has extra merit for tailor on a spawning migration.
The same method has worked wonderfully well for me in the Whitsundays and Gulf for queenfish, GT's and shallow water coral trout. It can also work in surf gutters.
Another area where Chris and I have slightly differing opinions, is in the speed of the first cast in a location. Chris is indeed correct in saying that schools can be drawn into a location by the presence of the lure making noise on the surface. Whereas Chris cranks hard on the third cast, I always make my first retrieve the quickest to excite the fish in the gutter and make the surface noise that the fish will pick up with their lateral line. Also if there are big tailor already in the gutter, then they will want to hit a quick lure - you can't crank faster than they can swim no matter what reel you are using. I will be doing some experimenting here with Chris's suggestion in mind though.
Effectively the method just mentioned is performing the same role as a popper with the added benefit of 'controlled' speed.
Horse, (ausfish member) will be turning up here shortly and it would be good to meet other Ausfishers that venture on to the North Shore as well. So feel free anyone to let me know you're coming.
Horse might just find a few tailor this weekend too with reasonable choppers (40cm) being taken between the 1st and 3rd cuts this morning.
Don't know what's happened to the netters, but nobody has seen them on the beach for a couple of weeks. So there might be a few fish to be caught yet before the carnage really starts.
Lindsay
Haha certainly am, INFORMATION OVERLOAD.Originally Posted by Slider
Very useful info here.
I have never spun for tailor before, i have grown up using pilchards on gang hooks with snyderglass and the old heavy alvey fibreglass reels. I'm only 20 but have been beach fishing as long as i could stand up with my dad.
Although we have no where near as much luck these days with the declining tailor stocks, i sometimes thinks it just that the old methods of fishing aren't as effective these days. So that's why i'm gonna resort to trying my hand at spinning.
The concept of your sliding lures has me thinking about flatening out a lead barrel sinker (i'm yet to figure out the most effective way) and spray painting them silver (what would give a more effective shiny finish ? chrome dipping would be to expensive?).
Also i'm considering buying myself another TSS4 just for use of tailor spinning as the one with 25lb i use for mackerel casting.
Thanks for the info there is still some more i have to read yet, pitty i'm not at home in Noosa this wknd as i am really keen to get out and have a crack, are the tailor stocks good around Noosa yet ?
Also would the 12' Live Fibre Trophy rod i have be too heavy to use with 4kg line ?
MJC85 - you may be able to find a spare spool for your TSS4 but make sure if you do this that it will actually go on the reel as sometimes they can't be interchanged.
The tailor are patchy on the North Shore mainly because of netting and as a result, nothing is predictable as it would be to some degree if the netting wasn't taking place.
You are correct about the old methods not working so well anymore - fish learn over long periods of time.
Would suggest painting the flattened out barrel sinker white rather than silver, or even just 1 side white.
Good to know that you're receiving the info mate - hate to think I was wasting my time here.
slider
i've used a similar rig, not purpose built, for same sorta results. was bored one day on the north shore used my 6'6" small scale spinning rod in a nearly empty gutter with a texas rig, ie sliding weight hooks had plastic skirt, caught heapsa small flathead , bar tails mostly. thought might stick it on my 12" surf spinnig gear.
wasn't heavy enough so added a #4 ball sinker behind bullet head plenty of distance & results.
that was 3 years ago but i've modified it a bit since then works well
Sam, I hope you weren't wearing that plastic skirt.
Most blokes wear plastic pants if they're going to fish in the surf.
Seriously now, a plastic skirt goes over the casting weight to make it look like a lure?
Distance on the cast would be a problem due to the wind drag from the skirt. When distance isn't an issue it would work fine. Or similarly you could cast a hex head. Expensive way to go though.
Have received many PMs asking how to make sliders or where to purchase them. In short I can't help on the making side of things too much but can assist in the purchasing department well. But I'm loving hearing the methods that have been employed by Ausfishers so far in making them. Reminds me very much of our own initial attempts.
Will start a post now in tackle section so that people trying to make them can discuss openly their methods and with the input from all the wise old soldiers out there, maybe make it feasible for more practical methods. See yas there.
lol flash
i always wondered why ppl looked at me funny when i was beach fishing
plastic skirt is attached to the hook lol, weight slides up the leader, tailor are pretty savage on the the plastic but, they don't last long. will post some pics in sliders post in tackle section, just gotta find me placcy skirt first
regards
sams_fish
I wish I had read the rest of this post before I headed up. Pure GOLD
luckily I still managed a dozen choppers thanks to Sliders suggestions.
The casting direction (into the wind) is something I have not thought about before but will certainly try next time. My retrieve rate has always been to start slow almost like a jigging action and speed up consecutive casts. I will certainly try the other way next time.
What sort of rods does everyone use? I am currently useing a TSS4 and FSU 4120G but at 10' I think it may be a bit short for the distance shots. 90m pulls up most casts with a 65gm Raider.
Neil
Must crank early Neil. Speed is what excites pelagics to feed. Am trying to organise some video I have of choppers I was getting here a couple of years ago that may assist in a number of areas. The cameraman was pissed and I'll have to delete the audio, but it should be good info on water selection, retrieval rates, playing fish, casting technique and hook up technique. Just have to sort out a few things with getting it on the site. Any suggestions?
mmmmmmm Tailor
I to have witnessed the killing fields not only on tailor but spotties and wahoo. why can`t people take enough for a feed and be happy to call it a day! Leave some for tomorro,fish for life.
And Edmo, as you know, the enjoyment of watching a fish swim free after providing so much pleasure is simply one of the best aspects of fishing. Not to mention the down time in having to do something with the fish after capture and the cleaning and filleting etc.
Cheers
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