dual beam or single beam

[Sean]

I am on the verge of getting a new sounder and had 70% made up my mind on the matrix12 over the garmin ff120.
When i read the hummingbird brochure, they talked about the size of bottom coverage for the 20degree cone. it seemed to me that you really do need the larger cone angle for river/dam fishing (ie. shallower applications). I have now 70% decided that although the matrix seems like the better unit, maybe the garmin is better for me. Any thoughts???? Sean

[MulletMan]

The two frequencies are referred to as:

1. 200 Hz being the default primary
2. 50 Hz being the secondary

200 Hz is by far the best as it gives you a very high definition resolution and clarity of picture. The so called "cone" will vary by depth, similar to an inverted icecream cone. The shallower the water then the less area shown and vice versa for deeper water.

50 Hz will give noticeably less resolution and clarity though on the plus side, the icecream cone image will be over a greater area. You will not get the greatest returns on fish due this characteristic.

It's all a compromise. Also both these frequencies work much better in fresh water than salt water due salinity levels, sand and crap in the water.

Most decent sets allow you to "split" the screen so you can have half on 200 Hz and the other half on 50 Hz. If your set doesn't have this capability, then you will have to jump back and forth changing the frequenzies.

Not a Garmin/Lowrance/Hummingbird fan personally and prefer the more upmarket (read as more expensive) stuff like Furuno, Kodan, JVC etc. One of the few items about where $$$$$$$$ is worth it!
Having said that the cheaper brands are very popular and probably do their job pretty well for the price.

In the end, forget the AUTO function and learn to handle the MANUAL controls - you will get better results and understand the functions a lot more.

[finga64]

I have a Furuno LS4100 that does what TPP says. They're great units.
I've heard some terrific deals going around at the moment with these units. Must be time for a new product range.
I also have a Humminbird 2005 deep. It's also twin beam and it also does the 200 or 50kHz or both screens and has speed and temp as well. It cost me just under $400.
Power wise the Furuno (rated 300w) is real power whilst the Humminbird (rated 500w) has nancy boy power in comparison but it's still tonnes more then what I need in the tinny.
I mainly use the Humminbird in the 50khz mode for the larger coverage over the shallows. But switch to 200kHz to pinpoint features when I find them on the 50kHz.
Both work well for the style of fishing I do in each boat. The Furuno in the bigger boat outside and the Humminbird in the tinny.
They both are switchable from fresh to salt water sounding if I remember correct.
Hope this makes some sense and doesn't confuse you even more.
Cheers Scott

[harry_h01]

I've been looking at sounders also and have found the new Garmin FF140 has a dual beam.

The FF140 hits Australia around the end of April and is less then the cost of the old FF120 unit.

Hope this helps.

Harry

[Sean]

yEAH I'VE SEEN THE FF140...DIDN'T FIND ANYWARE IN THE SPECS. A MENTION OF wATER RESISTANCE OR 360 swivel mount that 120 has...surely they haven't downgraded!! Thanks guys....I just thought the dual beam would be handy in locating the schools of fish ( in 50 range) Finding specific structure( in 200 range) The garmin is a lot cheaper and has the dual beam Any more thoughts?? please...Sean PS Thanks guys

[Fitzy]

Hi Sean,
THe Matrix 12 is a single 20 degree beam @ 200kHz.

I would say that YES, a wider beam is an advantage to show more structure & fish, particularly so in relatively shallow water in lakes, estuaries etc. However a wide beam is a trade off for better bottom definition that a narrower cone gives.

All Matrix untis above the M12 are (at mimimum) dual frequency units that have 1 x 200kHz beam at 20 degrees & 1 x 83kHz beam at 60 degrees width.
These are integrated as DualBeam PLUS which shows bottom reading using only the narrow, high freqency for bottom detail & both frequencies for showing structure (off the bottom) and fish. If you turn FishID + on the dual freq units will tell you which cone the fish are in.

You can have both the 83kHz & 200kHz turned on at the same time on the same screen (Dual Beam PLUS), split them into half a screen each, or run either one on its own at any time you like.

Hope that helps.

Fitzy..

[Sean]

That is what I figured. Then do i go for the cheaper unit with slightly less pixels but with dual beam or do i go with the higher pixel count with the single beam? What is everyones opinion...I know all will have their own, just trying to gather as much info b4 I make the decision....have seen the matrix12 in the flesh, can anyone vouch for the garmin ff120? thanks guys Sean

[ShaneJ]

I can vouch for the garmin FF120. However I would say you only require the 200Khz transducer.
I have the FF250 in my boat and I rarely if ever use the 50Khz.

[MulletMan]

Yep, go with the 200 Hz model and the better pic!
Never used the 50 Hz in anger in my life - you will never miss it!

[banshee]

Either I'm confused (not hard) or some of you blokes are,I thought dual beam was achieved by the unit sending pulses off simutaneously through two different cone angles the benifit being you could decifer to wich side of the boat the targets were if they were not in the narrow beam (close proximity under the boat),as opposed to dual frequencies genneraly 200 and 50 kHz wich were used for finding fish in varying depths of water,200 Khz through various cone angles selected on purchase for genneral use and 50kHz through a wider cone angle genneraly predetirmined by the manufacturer of the TX to go with the other and used to find targets in much deeper water,with the exeption of JRC I thought dual freq units were either one or the other not both at once?

[Fitzy]

I thought dual freq units were either one or the other not both at once?

As mentioned above, the Matrix 17 & over, all 700 Series & all 900 Series 'birds have at least 2 (upto 4) beams running simultaneously giving coverages upto 180 degrees.
Used to sell garmin, lowrance, jrc & navman. I cannot remember the freqs or beam angles on them however or if they can run their DFs simultaneously.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

[ShaneJ]

The Garmins can run both frequenices at once in dual mode.

[moater]

[quote author=banshee link=1145395306/0#9 date=1145504501]I thought dual freq units were either one or the other not both at once?

As mentioned above, the Matrix 17 & over, all 700 Series & all 900 Series 'birds have at least 2 (upto 4) beams running simultaneously giving coverages upto 180 degrees.
Used to sell garmin, lowrance, jrc & navman. I cannot remember the freqs or beam angles on them however or if they can run their DFs simultaneously.

Cheers,

Fitzy..[/quote]


Sorry Fitzy,don't mean offence, but when a person that used to sell these products,can't recall frequencies or the fundamentals then..maybe you're gettin' the ole-timers??

Darren PS:Hoope I'm not banned because of this..I have a massive amount to learn about this and other subjects,plus it's a good site..even if I am a mex..."you you darn southernerners,come up here...take our jobs,don't you worry about that!"

[Sean]

This is my way of thinking..I have only been studying the subject for a few weeks now mind you so correct me If I am wrong.
If I was fishing in around 60 feet of water say in a dam, I knew there was a submerged log down there, I would have my beam on the narrower cone (20degrees) as this would give me a 20foot Diameter circular readout (1/3 depth) on the bottom and excellent Definition so I could pinpoint this sunken timber exactly. If I was using the 45 degree cone, it would give me roughly a 50 foot diameter circular readout (nearly 1 times depth) of the bottom....that bloody log could be anywhere!!!
Alternatively, If I was going to be doing a spot of Whiting fishing, There is an excellent spot in Ballina that is around 10 foot deep for instance. I'm not looking for structure, the bottom has yabby flats, it's physically featureless. What I am trying to locate is the schools of fish. If I was using the 20 degree cone, the read-out would only cover around 3foot diameter circle almost directly under the motor, It doesn't take much for the school to go completely undetected. If however, i was using the 45 degree cone, the bottom coverage would be in a nearly 10 foot diameter circle on the bottom. A much greater chance of detecting the fish.
Now you are all prob. thinking, so why are you asking us...because, like I said, I could be completely wrong, just what I read in the Hummingbird Matrix catalogue....A little ironical that their catalogue may have enlightened me to not buy their single cone unit! Anyway, correct me If I am wrong. Sean

[Fitzy]

[quote author=Fitzy link=1145395306/0#10 date=1145527540]
Sorry Fitzy,don't mean offence, but when a person that used to sell these products,can't recall frequencies or the fundamentals then..maybe you're gettin' the ole-timers??

No offence taken, however your post is worthy of a reply. My meaning was that the models I used to sell are now superceded. I'm not familiar with the latest versions of the brands mentioned. Fundamentals werent mentioned.
.. and yes, I probably do have a bit of old-timers coming on. But probably still know enough to help most folks out,, even on a bad day.

Fitzy..