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Waldo's Bycatch Photos - Page 8
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Thread: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

  1. #106
    Ausfish Bronze Member
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    oh and kev as to the recco catches 10 yr ago

    Although many fish captured by anglers are released (approaching 100 percent for some species), there can be substantial postrelease mortality (Muoneke and Childress 1994, Cooke and Suski forthcoming) as well as more subtle sublethal effects on growth and fitness (Cooke et al. 2002). Release mortality in recreational fisheries is analogous to bycatch discards in commercial fisheries, an internationally recognized conservation problem (Alverson et al. 1994).

    In addition to contributing directly to global fishery declines through harvest or mortality, recreational fisheries can contribute to alterations in system function and quality. Harvest or postrelease mortality can act as a selective force in recreational fisheries (Policansky 1993), as it has been observed to do in commercial fisheries (Heino and Godo 2003). Although fewer examples exist in recreational fisheries, trophic or ecosystem-level effects can also be observed (McPhee et al. 2002). Environmental degradation from fishing was once attributed primarily to commercial activities (Dayton et al. 1995), but the recreational sector is now understood to have its fair share of responsibility (Cryer et al. 1987). Discarded fishing line and hooks can foul birds, marine mammals, corals, and other marine life, resulting in substantial injury and mortality (Cowx 2002, McPhee et al. 2002 ). Also, the accumulation of lead sinkers can result in mortality of waterbirds and have effects at higher trophic levels (Cowx 2002). Anglers may disturb wildlife, trample riparian vegetation to gain access to the water, and increase nutrient loading through ground baiting (distribution of organic bait to attract fish). Recreational boat traffic and the associated noise pollution, waves, erosion, and scarring also contribute to environmental degradation (Cowx 2002, McPhee et al. 2002).

    Recreational fisheries are also responsible for an as yet undetermined degree of degradation offish stocks through fishery enhancement practices (Cowx 1998) or introductions (Cambray 2003). Notwithstanding these issues, the position of recreational fisheries must be balanced against the huge value (billions of dollars) of the sector to regional and local economies (Cowx 2002).

    Recreational fishing and global fish crises

    Several factors may explain the lack of attention to recreational fisheries in the consideration of global fishery crises. Collapses induced by recreational fishing may be difficult to detect (Post et al. 2002). Few long-term monitoring programs exist that could be used to detect declines in a global context. Furthermore, anglers exhibit complex behavior, and fisheries respond dynamically to exploitation (Post et al. 2002). Also, because recreational anglers represent a vocal and effective constituent group, the standard response to perceived or actual decline or alteration in population structure is supplementation (Cowx 1998). Hence, the impact of recreational fishing is typically addressed by curing symptoms rather than by addressing underlying causes.

    like to hightlight the sector that says
    release mortality in recco fisheries analogous to bycatch discards is commercial fisheries.
    had to look up analogous;similar,paralell [oxford concise]
    mmmmmmmm
    sumthing about clean fingers and pointing......

    realize i have posted this b4 but think u need to read it again

  2. #107
    bidkev
    Guest

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    Waldo, I am familiar with Post et al, and Cowx and most of their research is aimed at the global recreational fishery.

    Yes, there is no doubt that any fishing must impact on stocks, but that is not what is at issue here. Pointing the finger when one is pointed at you, does absolutely nothing to support an argument and if anything, only detracts from any defence.

    I have looked at overseas fisheries and the problem they have is pretty much the same as we have here, in that there is not enough observers to see what is *actually* happening. Phone sampling and asking for a diary to be kept is not adequate IMHO and can only produce innacurate results when applied to the whole recreational sector.

    We have bag limits and size limits that over time may well reflect the sustainability of rec fishing on it's current scale. We are policed, just as pro fishers are. There isn't much more we can do other than to subject our discards to minimum stress and keep within the legislation.

    That is all we can do other than give up all together.

    The issue here is: What more can the pros and Gov't do? and simply bouncing back with generalised (global) research aimed at reccos doesn't address what is being posed here.

    Mate, I've seen it with my own eyes....often! A trail of dead and dying juveniles being picked off by gulls in a section of river less than 200 metres wide being trawled simultaneously by 3 trawlers! There's no excuse for it, there's little condemnation of it, it's absolutely lethal, devastating, short-sighted and downright disgusting. Why Fisheries cannot see that is beyond my comprehension!

    kev

    It is OK to let your mind go blank, but please turn off the sound



  3. #108
    Ausfish Platinum Member rando's Avatar
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    Oct 2004

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    (snip)
    Release mortality in recreational fisheries is analogous to bycatch discards in commercial fisheries, an internationally recognized conservation problem (Alverson et al. 1994).
    [hr]


    I would like to know whether this statement is meant to be empirical , and if so how did the author arrive at the conclusion ,
    how was this measured?
    Because I dont believe an accurate measurement method for post release mortality from rec fisher has been devised.

    A recent experiment of this kind in NSW was inconclusive due to limitations in the method. The experiment involved linecaught fish released into pens, I cant quote all the details but the authors conceded the model was flawed as it did not sufficiently replicate release into the ecosystem.
    The mortality rates were very low.
    rando

  4. #109
    Ausfish Bronze Member
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    [dredge 83] must be stressed that this research was pre teds and brds.

    less than 10 % of fish caught by beam trawls important to reccos
    disturbance by beam trawl imperceptible when compered to pollution,siltation from developement, habitat destruction from developement.
    uni of queensland studies show recco sector recieving no benefit from clousure of beam trawl industry.
    wmb oceanic survey of moretonbay and esturies concludes
    'there is little evidence to conclude that beam trawling is having a significant impact on either stocks or habitats of species targetted in recco, fisheries. therefore it is unlikely that significant benefits to recco fishers would result from closing beam trawl fishery'.

    perhaps this may shed sum light on fisheries decisions being based on science and not anyones personal opinions[ which i do believe has been slated prev. as an unwanted approach to debate on this threads]

  5. #110
    Ausfish Platinum Member rando's Avatar
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    Oct 2004

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    Waldo
    23 years ago pollution siltation and developement possably did exceed the effects of beam trawling , but it is drawing a long bow to suggest the same is so today, given the changes in environment laws.

  6. #111
    bidkev
    Guest

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    Quote Originally Posted by waldo35
    [dredge 83] must be stressed that this research was pre teds and brds.

    less than 10 % of fish caught by beam trawls important to reccos
    disturbance by beam trawl imperceptible when compered to pollution,siltation from developement, habitat destruction from developement.
    uni of queensland studies show recco sector recieving no benefit from clousure of beam trawl industry.
    wmb oceanic survey of moretonbay and esturies concludes
    'there is little evidence to conclude that beam trawling is having a significant impact on either stocks or habitats of species targetted in recco, fisheries. therefore it is unlikely that significant benefits to recco fishers would result from closing beam trawl fishery'.

    perhaps this may shed sum light on fisheries decisions being based on science and not anyones personal opinions[ which i do believe has been slated prev. as an unwanted approach to debate on this threads]
    less than 10 % of fish caught by beam trawls important to reccos

    That's because they're juveniles. As Rando and self have repeated, it is the food chain that is important.

    Disturbance by beam trawl imperceptible when compered to pollution,siltation from developement, habitat destruction from developement.

    Imperceptible when compared. The research is comparing. The degredaton of environment is on a "huge" scale so a comparison between the two may well arrive at that conclusion. "When compared to" does NOT mean that it is not of significance.

    As for the "research" you have qouted. Care to give a pointer so that we can peruse the methodology? As I have stated, I consider the methodology in most research to date, to be highly sus.

    kev

    It is our responsibility, not ourselves that we should take seriously.

  7. #112
    Ausfish Bronze Member
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    Mar 2006

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    as uv stated in another post kev ur self educated which hey good onya me too. i would like to see some scientific credentials tho b4 im willing to accept ur personal opinion being anything more than that. all very well to call into question methodology but when this questioning is backed by nothing more than ur personal opinion then thats all it is .....not scientific evidence.
    as to where the research comes from its quoted ........dredge 83 and wmb oceanics.

  8. #113
    Ausfish Platinum Member rando's Avatar
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    Oct 2004

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    You dont need a string of letters after your name to be able to apply logic and reason to a problem
    Kev has shown himself to have a keen understanding of ALL the issues associated with the task And also to be impartial.
    He has researched the question of bycatch , absorbed the available information and drawn a reasoned conclusion.
    that is exactly what anyone whether a full time academic, a politicion or as in Kevs case an interested layman would and can do.
    It is simply churlish to suggest his efforts are wanting.
    Rando

  9. #114
    Ausfish Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    yeah yeah i know being a recco fisher bestows omnipitence good onya yawn

  10. #115
    CHRIS_aka_GWH
    Guest

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    Quote Originally Posted by waldo35
    as uv stated in another post kev ur self educated which hey good onya me too. i would like to see some scientific credentials tho b4 im willing to accept ur personal opinion being anything more than that. all very well to call into question methodology but when this questioning is backed by nothing more than ur personal opinion then thats all it is .....not scientific evidence.
    as to where the research comes from its quoted ........dredge 83 and wmb oceanics.


    waldo,

    i'll offer my string of letters in biological/ecological & physical science, mathematics, education & industrial design with post graduate garnishing .....
    but kev doesn't need them, what he should be given is respect. The respect he offers others (always).

    What he is doing, desemination of research, could easily gain him his own letters.

    Scientific methodology is largely a study in the logic of cause & effect, and the control and /or understanding of the bias uncontrolled variables can produce.

    One of the great triumphs of science is that it challenges others to be critical of it - it welcomes criticism - because critical evaluation affirms fact.


    Kev is being scientific when he questions control & logic in interpretation.

    chris
    ps intelligence is not gained in a university, it is best developed in the school of life. The most intelligent & capable problem solvers I know have real life experience & very few "letters".


  11. #116
    bidkev
    Guest

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    Quote Originally Posted by waldo35
    kev ur pictures show a fish trawl and from nsw so really its hardly evidence of anything.
    as to what prawn is caught in the bay u should be asking rather than telling. the bay produces beautiful big prawns of all species.
    It's evidence of how discards are treated on a particular boat. Now if that picture was used in a research doc (as it was) the reader could construe that it illustrates how the fishery as a whole, treats discards. The only *real* way to show this is not true, is to put observers on every boat. I am simply illustrating how current research does not neccessarily give a true picture of overall practice throughout the fleet.

    Again, with regards to your comment " u should be asking rather than telling". I have "asked" research is about "asking" (seeking knowledge) The figures I qoute are from DPI&F research.

    You can see how results from research can produce different conclusions for different people. I assume that by you stating, "the bay produces beautiful big prawns of all species." that you are inferring that you disagree with my comments with regard to the fact that trawling inshore prevents some prawns from reaching maturity? Just because the bay produces "beautiful big prawns of all species." this does not mean that my statement is not true. That statement, again, was based on DPI&F research. In dismissing my research, you are in fact, dismissing their's........ research that's aimed at proving a sustainable fishery........it follows that if you are dismissing their research, then you have no evidence that the fishery is sustainable. Own goal mate.

    kev

    A lie has speed, but truth has endurance.


  12. #117

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    as uv stated in another post kev ur self educated which hey good onya me too. i would like to see some scientific credentials tho b4 im willing to accept ur personal opinion being anything more than that.
    Waldo , would you accept "Prof Ove Hoegh-Guldberg" letters after his name... ...blindly....

    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...E25717,00.html

    you Waldo ,don't need 'quals' to have your opinion recognised as "hands-on experience" , 2-ways to skin a cat mate..... as i doubt many scientists have ever owned their own trawler either

    p.s. mate ,could you pull in a ton or 3 of 'redspots'....luv 'em

  13. #118
    Ausfish Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    blah blah blah nothing new ur opinion most important yeah i get it good onya .

  14. #119
    Ausfish Platinum Member rando's Avatar
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    Oct 2004

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos


  15. #120
    BAIT_MAN
    Guest

    Re: Waldo's Bycatch Photos

    It would be nice for you rando and waldo to AGREE TO DISAGREE then we can get on with the things that matter and that is to be a united force and win this war. We the recos have to work with the pros and pros will have to work with us to get what is best for everybody. So long as we continue to be at each others throats the goverment will keep rubbing it hands together and do as they please.

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