Science behind the proposed closures

[billfisher]

Tunaman,

A very simplistic argument based on typical gloom and doom green sentiment and not on facts. People will strip the planet in five years? We have been hearing this scenario since the 1960's. Agriculture has no trouble keeping up with our food needs. A lot of environmental indicators are better than ever, eg air and water quality around our major cities. All due to technical advances made possible by robust economic growth.

As to illegal fishing from the north. Why do you think they are coming down here? Because we have a fisheries resource we are hardly using. Australia imports 70% of its fish. New Zealand has twice the fishery we have. We are on par with small countries like Greece and Finland.

Don't you know that world population growth is leveling off? And our population is growing very slowly. Did you think that Australia is overpopulated with just 20 million occupying a whole continent?

You talk about growth, money, greed and say you want the opposite. So you want economic stagnation and unemployment? The latter often brings the worst outcomes for the environment. Look at Robert Mugawais Zimbabwe, the game animals are being plundered for meat because the economy including agriculture has slumped.

[tunaman]

So are you saying that over population has no weight to their reasons
for closeing down fishing spots?
Here,s a Question for you all. How many people are useing moreton bay
each year right now?-------------------------------------------------------------
And how many will be useing it in ten years? Our own government
wonts to in crease our population to 25million. These people will be coming in there thousands in the years to come. The science behind
the proposed closures is to close down these places so breading stock can have a chance grow before they swim out into the hunting zones
were the humans are. Their thinking of the big picture, and to say population is not going to grow, well I think your all in for a big shock. P/S What happens in the world does affect us, and to think Iam a greenies surporter, or a rec fishing downer, thats just plane stupid.



signed tunaman

[billfisher]

Tunaman,

There is no science behind these marine park closures, especially regarding amateur fishing. Why have fish stocks increased so much in the rec havens in NSW? These waters have been more popular than ever with amateurs since the the pros were brought out (20% more fishing). After 2 years catch rates are up 100 - 300% for popular species and average sizes are up too.

The CSIRO estimates fish imports are to rise sharply in the next ten years. The commonwealth fishing fleet is currently being cut in half (600 boats removed), as well as many other state restrictions.

[madmix]

Hi tunaman,

You say their thinking of the big picture, sorry but they are
distorting the picture to suit their own agenda.

I see that now one particular group wants to ban tourists from
the great barrier reef.. Well well, it just so happens that the
majority of GBRMPA income is derived from tourist fees. So
isn't it strange that the same scientists that claimed the reef
was under threat,to such an extent that it could not sustain
the meaghre level of recreational fishing, now wish to state
what great shape the reef is in.

If the world population is at such a threat level, and according to you
this is known to the green groups and Governments alike, then
why are governments across the world spending trillions via
the World Health Organisation, to tackle the AIDS epedemic and
the apparent pending Bird Flu epedemic. By your logic if these
extreme green groups directed their efforts to eliminating the
pursuit of medical science, the worlds problems could all be solved
in one................FOWL SWOOP................pun intended.

cheers Mick

[tunaman]

Billfisher. How they fool us, is to make people believe that there's a science behind the shutdowns of these fishing sites.
You and many others are right, its just a load of bullshit! and they do the science trip on people just to confuse them in the hope that their doing the right thing. Its intellectual intimidation and they know that it goes right over the heads of 80% of the population, and they just accept it as a righteous step.
Its population impact which is prompting them to close down these sites for future preservation. And another reason is that not all people do the right thing. Less than 30% of the recreational fisherman know the rules and do the right thing. The other 70% are a mix of people that dont give a stuff and the weekender holiday prawn throwers, they just want to catch a fish and show there children, make a mess and have the unfortunate disadvantage of pure ignorance. And like I said before, there is going to be tens of thousands of these people doing the wrong thing, and for these people that are invading these special places, and they are the ones that are responsibly for the closures now and in the future.
There's lots of big changes that have already happened, and they blame it on this, that and the next thing. example. they says there's been an increase in the number of teenage road deaths. it's just an increase in the number of teenages, and this example goes right across the board with hundreds of other examples.
The greenies firmly believe that humans are trampling everything to death and this is what is prompting them to press the panic button.
So when you see someone doing the wrong thing make sure you put the wind right up them and tell them that they are the ones that are responsable for the drastic action.



signed tunaman

[lefty_green]

[/quote]

good grief Lefty,,what a load of bollocks..a supposed 100 mill. people watch a man's memorial service and all of a sudden they are all conservationists..spare me.

[/quote]

I made no such assumption - my point was that the wider community dont really care about rec fishing and that at the moment conservationists have more support than rec fishers.

I DID NOT say they were conservationists - I said that conservationists have more support than rec fishers. Before you come up with some assinine comment be sure to read what I post

[billfisher]

Lefty_Green,

So why did the Fishing Party poll as well as the greens in the Qld election? Also the green groups that are pushing for these marine parks are tiny and represent practically no one.

Your just making wild assumptions to think otherwise.

[lefty_green]

As well as the greens? TFPQ = 7,388, Greens = 173,000+?

[billfisher]

Yes, as well as the greens in the seats they contested. The TFPQ did not contest all seats. Also they got 30,000 senate votes in the last Federal election.

[lefty_green]

Yes, as well as the greens in the seats they contested. The TFPQ did not contest all seats. Also they got 30,000 senate votes in the last Federal election.

The greens got 122983 senate votes in QLD. The fishing party got 29034. That represents a 1.28% swing to TFPQ and a 2.09% swing TO THE GREENS. The fact is, at the moment, the greens have more support than rec fishers.

http://results.aec.gov.au/12246/resu...-12246-QLD.htm

[billfisher]

Lefty,

The federal election was about 2 years ago. The state results reflect more what the support is 'at the moment'.

In any case fisheries managment should not be conducted on the basis of popularity polls. It should be about doing the right thing for the right reason at the right time.

[lefty_green]

Lefty,

The federal election was about 2 years ago. The state results reflect more what the support is 'at the moment'.

In any case fisheries managment should not be conducted on the basis of popularity polls. It should be about doing the right thing for the right reason at the right time.

Unfortunately, democracy is one big popularity contest. The majority get to decide whats best. At the moment, the greens and labor are in the majority.

[lefty_green]

Lefty,

The federal election was about 2 years ago. The state results reflect more what the support is 'at the moment'.

In any case fisheries managment should not be conducted on the basis of popularity polls. It should be about doing the right thing for the right reason at the right time.

Unfortunately, democracy is one big popularity contest. The majority get to decide whats best. At the moment, the greens and labor are in the majority.

The federal election was about 2 years ago
Also you brought up the federal election not me.

[PinHead]

good grief Lefty,,what a load of bollocks..a supposed 100 mill. people watch a man's memorial service and all of a sudden they are all conservationists..spare me.

[/quote]

I made no such assumption - my point was that the wider community dont really care about rec fishing and that at the moment conservationists have more support than rec fishers.

I DID NOT say they were conservationists - I said that conservationists have more support than rec fishers. Before you come up with some assinine comment be sure to read what I post
[/quote]

oh..stupid and dim witted am I now? I have been called a lot worse..now lefty..what makes you think that conservationists have more support than rec fishos..is that because a guesstimate of 100 mill watched the memorial service..in your own words that does not make them conservationists so where do you get the figures to prove your statement.

[PinHead]

[quote author=billfisher link=1157429646/165#175 date=1159241824]Lefty,

The federal election was about 2 years ago. The state results reflect more what the support is 'at the moment'.

In any case fisheries managment should not be conducted on the basis of popularity polls. It should be about doing the right thing for the right reason at the right time.

Unfortunately, democracy is one big popularity contest. The majority get to decide whats best. At the moment, the greens and labor are in the majority. [/quote]

god lefty..you are doing so well at putting up ludicrous posts and baiting people..so bloody funny...the greens and labor have the majority..dunno where you live but the greens did not get even one seat in the Qld election recently so how the hell does that make them any part of a majority? The anser to this one should be a corker.