Hi Wobbygone,
Hicksy & I have had this fundamental discussion before. The Qld system absolutely allows every voter to determine who gets their vote. Not us. No preference flows exist in the QLD system. If we produced a HTV card which directed votes, for example 1 Fishing Party 2 Greens, 3 Labor and 4 Libs. Voters are under absolutely no obligation to follow our suggestion and this is what is termed "preference leakage". You decide what order to put your vote. You are right about TFPQ, or other minor parties not winning seats (although some independants have and do).
It is still absolutely possible to send a protest vote by voting 1 for your protest party of choice and then 2 for who you personally want to run the state. Your choice, not ours. The senate system is a bit different but NOT THE STATE.
So, our suggestion would be, if you are fundamnetally opposed to one particular side or the other. Send a clear message that fishing is important enough to you to lodge a protest vote and then vote for the party you want to run the state.
KC
Thanks for the clarification Kev. All my comments made on this and ALL other threads are completely my own and in no way represent the views or opinions of the Fishing Party Queensland. I do NOT represent The fishing Party and do NOT speak on their behalf in any form whatsoever.Originally Posted by kc
I hope that clears up any misunderstanding any may have.
Thanks,
Adam
The Workshoices legislation just shows how damaging it can be to have an overwhelming majority of either side in power. The opposition in Qld is generally weak and ineffective, and this allows the labour Government to do (or not do) whatever they want.
Best case scenario is for whichever side to have a small minority with the balance of power held by independents. Worstcase scenario would be to have Beattie returned with a big majority again - IMHO.
Jeremy
"The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
(Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)
Apathy is the enemy
Thanks for your comments regarding my post. My intention was to keep a focus on the big picture, as I feel that is our only hope for a half reasonable result. I am not convinced that minority groups or independents serve us well though. Cast our mind back to the jelly bellys who sold us out on the GST and even worse, and more recent, the WORKCHOICE LEGISLATION.
As I mentioned in earlier post, the bay and I are joined at the hip and I will fish till the day I drop. Also being a fishcare volly with the dpi boating and fisheries, I frequently get to see the enjoyment that the bay gives to the fishing and boating public. We certainly don't want to loose that.
I believe this forum allows a healthy platform for meaningful discussion on subjects such as this.
Keep up the fight in an attempt to keep those elected to serve the people, a servent of the people.
Wobbygone
Wobbygone has made a very good point with this comment: Keep up the fight in an attempt to keep those elected to serve the people, a servent of the people. There have also been very good points made by the others as well.
I guess the thing to understand about the Labor party is that they are really about four political parties rolled into one. This is due ot the factions within the labor party ranging from extreme left wing socialist to greeny - and each of these factions have their own set of politics and interests that vary more than labor does to the coalition.
How do they keep everyone happy - it is done by sharing the spoils and having a strict code within the party that if anybody dares to break it they are branded a "Rat" and are totally austracised from the party. Have you ever wondered why, with such a large majority in Queensland, their cabinet is continually made up of duds, and why Peter Beattie doesn't bring in new blood from his excess of MP's some of whom would do an infinitely better job than those they have? Well it is because of the factions. The only thing the factions hate more than the Coalition is each other.
Probably the worst kept secret in Queensland Politics is that Peter Beattie runs his cabinet, but he doesn't get a choice as to who is in it, and he definitely has no say in running the labor party. The thing old Apologetic Pete knows is that he is the best front man for the party and the rest of the party know it and so he is the only one who is really safe.
When you look at Peter Beattie - it isn't rocket science with how he cons people. Whenever something comes up for a specific location he will always personalise it by making a statement about himself and that location first e.g. If something comes up about Redcliffe, he will say first of all, "Well I have got a real soft spot for Redcliffe because that is where Heather and I got married."
When the issue of Moreton Bay comes to the forefront you can bet your bottom dollar that he will make a statement to the people prefixing what he is going to say by something like this "Well let me tell you that Moreton Bay is real important to me, because I taught my kids how to fish on Moreton Bay". That will tell the people who don't follow the issues that, "Oh he must mean well then if Moreton Bay is important to him" and straight away he has put the vast majority of people who don't fish right on his side. It is really elementary Psychology.
What has this got to do with the closures? Well, I am just demonstrating that we have to be smarter then him and the rest of the party. If I may suggest that possibly the best investment the Fishing Party could make would be bumper stickers such as the Police and ambo's used in their EB Campaign with a real good short caption which aims at the heart of the labor party and more importantly at Peter Beattie. You would be surprised at how many people will put them on their cars and you will see them everywhere. They are also relatively cheap to do.
That's my rant for the day,
Cheers
Horny
Live every day as if it's your last - for one day you're sure to be right!
Good Point wobbygone I recieved this today, sort of made me sit up and think a bit.
Whose side are you on Bruce? Email QLD Liberal leader Bruce Flegg now.
Dear friend,
Award pay and conditions could be slashed for up to 20,000 retail workers in Queensland as local employers begin a new push to take advantage of the Howard Government's radical IR laws.
Queensland Liberal leader Bruce Flegg is on the campaign trail. Email him now and ask him "whose side are you on, Bruce?"
Dr Flegg needs to come clean with Queenslanders in the lead up to the state election. Do the Queensland Liberals and Nationals support the push by retail traders and shopkeepers to slash award pay and conditions?
Weekend penalty rates, public holiday loadings and annual leave are all under threat by the Queenslander Retail Traders and Shopkeepers Association (QRTSA).
Even more unfairly, the QRTSA wants to make staff pay for any till shortages, buy their own uniforms and insist on costly medical certificates from workers that take even a single day of sick leave.
The QRTSA is even encouraging retailers to take advantage of the Federal Government's new IR laws to exploit young people by requiring juniors to work short shifts and avoid paying for a minimum block of 3 hours.
This is the ugly side of the Howard Government's new IR laws. #Employers are able to slash the take home pay of hard working Queenslanders by putting staff onto AWA individual contracts and removing important award conditions.
Cruelly, prices continue to go up, just as wages for working families are being pushed down by John Howard's IR laws.
Email QLD Liberal leader Bruce Flegg. Will he support 20,000 retail workers in his home state? Or will he allow the Howard Government's IR laws to be used to drive down their wages? Are you going to co-operate with the Howard Government to undermine workers' rights in Queensland?
Whose side are you on, Bruce? www.rightsatwork.com.au/campaigns/whoseside
Many thanks,
Sharan Burrow, Greg Combet, and
The Rights at Work campaign team
cheers
Joe
Hi Joe,
The IR laws are a federal issue... Flegg - even if he was premier (which he will never be) cant do anything about it (you have to have a voice in the Federal arena) - support it or not support it - it doesnt matter - You have more influence over IR laws - as it looks like you are in some kind of lobby group - so putting Flegg on the spot over this doesnt help the State at all. Thats the trouble with many people (not you Joe - I know you guys know) is "they" dont know the difference between Federal and State issues and confuse the two which allows the Feds to promote federal issues (like the IR debate) in a state election in order to influence voters.
However Flegg may have an interest in State issues such as the potential rezoning and closure of the bay - which is what we are all here for... perhaps we should find out more about that!?
lets support the one party that we KNOW has our best (fishing) interests at heart... yes there are other issues that rate more highly - like health... but supporting TFPQ (where you can) is a protest vote that shows the current Govt (in every issue) that they arent up to scratch and to pull up their socks. TFPQ has repeatedly said they cant and wont win a single seat - but its the numbers that count - once they have the numbers then they can have influence over decision makers - the greens have about 4% of the state vote if TFPQ can get 10% in the seats they run - this will dilute the greens influence and stranglehold over ministers ears.
The fishing party doesnt need comprehensive workable and costed policies on health etc. Thats an oppositions job - TFPQ will never be in opposition - so dont need to develop such. They just need to have influence... which in political parlance is called legitimacy the only thing that gives legitimacy is votes. So Vote 1 the fishing Party's preferred candidate.
I was going to stay out of the political debate...but some things cannot go by without a comment...Adamy...Ministers or sitting Members in State Govt do not care about the losers..makes no difference to their decision making once in power. They will only pander to other groups nearing election time. Federally with the Senate is different as that is State wide vote and not just a local seat vote. As I have said previously, the ALP does not pander to the Greens when in power..they have to pander to their own Socialist Left Faction which has a strong green leaning. Beattie has made lots of decisions which the QLD Greens have no been happy about but internal dealings with their own factions have gotten these items approved. The main danger is from within the ALP itself.
Im not a political animal, in fact I have tried to stay away from it all my life. I have to say that the political knowledge here is quite impressive. I have to think at the moment that it doesnt matter who is pushing these closures or who is fueling it to go further. What is important is that we have to stand together and fight as a team. From what I have reed so far we are far from that.
Yes I know everyone has their own opinion and no one has the right to tell someone else how or what to think and maybe im nieve or just a little thick, but how can we fight beatties bunch if we cant stop having digs at eachother or trying to score points on how much more someone knows as opposed to someone else. It is not time to score points of eachother, it is time to stand together as a united force and stick it up beatties backside and the extreme greens. My 2 cents worth.
Kel
I was pleased to read in Bayside Weekly magazine that the Beattie Government announced in both a public gathering and also in the media, that Moreton bay marine park would not change for rec anglers.
The enviornment minister, Desley Boyle, announced that government will "garentee continued access for fishers, with 96% of the marine park available to recreation fishers."
The statement referd to the scare campain that was generated after the AMCS outlined THERE proposal for up to 50% closure of the bay to rec fishing.
Why do people go off half cocked every time one sparrow in the flock breaks wind.
See you on the bay.
Wobbygone
Hi Wobbgygone... Can you please dig up that quote and perhaps post here? Because I do believe that you have may misinterpreted the quote. I believe that what it said was that Beattie would guarantee rec fishos ACCESS to the bay.
Access is quite a bit different to fishing, access means you can look but not touch. Give you an example - John Tanzer - the chief in charge of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park still insists that ""no-take" areas were not closed off to the public". (courier mail 2002) and yet if you try and catch a fish in those areas - it is a criminal offence. It'll be like a zoo - look but dont touch. This subject has been covered adequately here in other threads. Oh by the way, according to the AMCS website only 1% is currently protected - the 96% access (you quoted) then seems to indicate that the size of notake - or green zones will in fact triple... Hope that's not in your favourite spot x. (actually I'd love a copy of that article - it may help our cause)
The statement in fact was referring to the scare campaign by recreational fishos regarding the lobbying by greenies such as the AMCS.... Sorry mate - I'm not trying to burst your balloon - but it is well covered here and also in the press.
I'm afraid that people are right to be concerned. Beattie ran a similar hose down campaign up north before he caused the closure of 1800kms of beaches to fishing with his complimentary zones policy. for reference please see an article in the Innisfail Advocate on3 February 2004 called: Clarity sought on fish zones. In this article it was just before the election and they refused to divulge their hand concerning the proposed closures, then bought in restrictions after the election.
In the meantime... and this goes for you too Pinhead... I encourage all to have a look at the Greens marine policy website: http://qld.greens.org.au/policies/marine-policy/ How do you think they are going to achieve these aims if not through preference deals???? Anyway it doesnt matter who pushes the button - once your rights are gone they're gone.
To tell the truth pinhead - I dont know what you're even arguing about... it didnt make sense.... but you think and know whatever you like - but when the signs go up that say no fishing - just ask yourself... what did I do to help?? Anyway Kel is right - why do we fight each other just to score a point over the other?? so you (or I) win a point - big deal - you get the biggest prize for knowing the most about the inner workings of the labor party.... is that doing anything to save our access to the Bay?
If what you say is true - then all Ausfish members should vote for the libs or Nats... and kick Beattie out - its our only choice... that is... according to your argument. I'm not getting into that one.... I'm supporting the Fishing Party.... sorry
Adamy,
You post all these wonderful quotes and then say the problem with people is they don't understand the difference between state and federal issues.
Mate you haven't got a clue yourself!
If you dont think IR is a state issue you are kidding yourself. Or should I remind you what the Liberals did back in 1996 when they changed our state IR laws to mirror the Federal workplace relations act.
Over 90% of workers in Qld have been roped into the Federal system and the State Libs supported that.
If the Libs/Nats get in again they will do exactly the same thing.
So yes, Flegg can make decisions that will have a significant impact on peoples ability to earn wages and conditions including employers.
If the Liberals and Nats have their way there will be no penalty rates, more weekend workand less family time.
How big of an impact will that have on peoples fishing ability?
And no, before you start spruiking off. this isn't bullshit it is true.
It's been through the courts the ILO convention and many other institutions and organisations and they all say the same thing.
If you doubt me just do a search on the net. It is all fact not bullshit or propoganda. (Which we are getting plenty of lately)
Workchoices will have a negative impact on peoples capacity to earn money.
less money less fishing it's not rocket science!
Another thing who was resposible for the closures in the GBR. Wasn't that a federal decision.
Hicksy
Hey hicksy... I dunno if you've checked lately mate but this is a fishing forum... the forum for IR workplace relations is elsewhere - suggest you go there and rant... This is about what we CAN do to save our fishing access rights... please check the initial post if you are unsure. What you are doing is called post hijacking... lets get back to the original issue - saving our fishing rights!
okay Adam..you reckon I don't make any sense...politics is a numbers game so here are some numbers:
there are 89 seats in The Queensland Legislative Assembly.
The Fishing Party endorsed candidates are standing in 4 seats which equates to approx. 4.5% of the total seats.
If TFP candidates get the 10% in each seat as you mention then this is approximately 0.45% of the total vote in the State...hardly an earth shaking percentage.
I believe the Greens are standing in about 75 seats..which equates to approx. 84% of the seats...if they only get 2% in each seat that gives them 16.8% of the total vote..now..how does the 0.45% dilute the 16.8% ????
I am certainly opposing any closures in the Bay but I am afraid your aims are not realistic in this election.
My belief that more support for the Alliance will give better results at the present time.
I am not against TFP but I also do not believe they are prepared for this election in respect to numbers of candidates etc required to make any real impression.
I do commend you for your support to your chosen Party however one also has to be realistic in these.
And please adamy...cut out the "when the signs go up...etc" routine..you are sounding just like a pollie..we all know what may happen and we are just as concerned about it howqever, very few of us can vote for TFP even if we wanted to.
Hopefully some basic maths might make sense to yourself..politics is all about numbers..nothing else at all...when it comes to elections and the passing of Legislation...that is what they have whips for...number crunchers.
"To tell the truth pinhead - I dont know what you're even arguing about... it didnt make sense.... but you think and know whatever you like - but when the signs go up that say no fishing - just ask yourself... what did I do to help?? Anyway Kel is right - why do we fight each other just to score a point over the other?? so you (or I) win a point - big deal - you get the biggest prize for knowing the most about the inner workings of the labor party.... is that doing anything to save our access to the Bay? "
As per your above quote..resorting to personal attacks now are we??? If you cannot understand where your major green adversary is then perhaps you should delve a bit further than you presently are.
As for your patronising of myself...don't bother..your sarcasm is wasted on me...water off a ducks back.
The reality is...with the numbers of TFP candidates standing in this election..do you really think it bothers the major parties..not one iota..the numbers tell it all.
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