Outboard tuning

[chris69]

Im in Mackay and I havent heard of anyone doing that stuff here to Outboards> Who is it?

This is my opinion .

Aside from the odd engine that that was modified by the manufacturer to produce less HP with little engineering , Outboards are best left the way they are. Manufacturers put huge effort into finding the best balance between economy, longevity and performance. People way above my paygrade set the output for a reason. It would be silly of me to distrust the manufacturer given they provide a 6 year warranty

If you need more power either lose weight, reprop or save up for the most appropriate engine for you to achieve your goal.

There’s a face book chat that’s dated 2020 and it says JB mechanical is at JlS mechanical it’s the JB mechanical guy that’s done the tuning.

[disorderly]

There’s a face book chat that’s dated 2020 and it says JB mechanical is at JlS mechanical it’s the JB mechanical guy that’s done the tuning.

I contacted JB a couple of years back.when i was looking into remapping my Honda 200 as its the same block as 225 and 250...

He told me just to send up the chip and it would be done..

But being me I did plenty of research and found on various forums and chats that there were definately unhappy customers, some who claimed that their reviews dissapeared if they had negative connotations and JB stopped answering calls and contact when they complained...everything from, despite being show graphs of HP increases on a dyno, no noticeable increase in Hp or fuel economy to actual engine problems plus of course the warranty voiding issue....

One of the issues I have is that how do you really compare stock figures with those of a remapped outboard which has now been repropped and also has to be run on Premium fuel.......any real or perceived fuel economy saving would automatically be offset by your higher fuel cost anyway wouldnt it..?.

The other thing to consider is what Ranmar mentioned ...if your outboard is the already the highest rated in the block size series then maybe any gains might be minimal anyway ie 150-175-200 or 200- 225- 250 etc

Anyway I didnt go ahead with my motor and figured with the high resale value of late model outboards I'd rather sell mine and just buy a new larger HP motor.

[ranmar850]

When people say that all the motors are the same in a certain HP range for a given manufacturer, they are often making assumptions. A recent thread on THT on this has been illuminating. There was also another thread on timimg belt changes, which revealed that the older 3.3l versions of the 200/225/250 were non-interference in 200/225, but interference in the 250? Which would indicate different pistons?

On another note, I see that Yamaha Australia no longer list the F130 on the website. These were a pumped-up version of the F115, and, I thought, were quite popular. Anyone hear anything bad about them? A mate fitted one to an older ali hull, hasn't put any real hours on it due to an engine mounting height problem--he has since had some welding done to rectify it, and not had the chance to try it.

[Dignity]

So much information/misinformation around and as I don't have mechanical/electronic knowledge I was hesitant to proceed even though people like JB said they would improve my performance by x%. Trouble was I looked at their graphs and in particular fuel savings and it just didn't make sense as I was getting their so called improved figures or better as I'd done the yards and tested props and kept meticulous records of usage.

Interesting comment about the 130hp yammie as I recall when it first came out as I'd just bought a new trailer and the guy that did the changeover for me was the ex manager of yamaha and he showed me the new motor and had a 115hp there side by side, he did say it was a totally different motor and not a revamped 115hp. I recall him telling me that it was the first of the new style of "offset" motors that yammie were bringing out. At least that was what I thought he told me, that was probably 7 or 8 years ago.

[Brettoh]

I spoke recently to Perth Marine Tuning about our 200 Yammy. It's a 2022 model, so tunable.
Info I got back was 30hp gain, 20% increase in torque and 10% fuel savings. Will not affect warranty and no long term affects unless you don't follow regular services. Cost was $1450, you send them your ECU and they tune it and send it back.
I'm thinking about doing it as the 200 on a 6.5m Cruise Craft is underpowered I believe, but it is max HP for the hull (from factory). This would be a cheaper option than getting the boat rerated and upgrading a near new outboard.

Ive never understood how they can claim more power but less fuel consumption. More power must require more fuel especially with constant load applications. I just dont get it.

Maybe your boat was designed to do exactly what it is doing at the speed you are getting from the max recommended engine on the back.
Ive just addded an additional 40 hp to my boat. Ive tried 5 different props with these engines, adjusted heights etc and only get 4kph more top speed at wot than I got with the smaller engines.

I have gained at cruising speed by running a larger prop and fewer RPM at the same speed as the old engines but fuel consumption has increased a tiny bit.

But what this exercise tells me is that the boat's design is the limiting factor and I shouldnt expect it to do more than what it was designed to do.

[Noelm]

It’s not just a more HP thing, manufacturers have to contend with emission laws that backyard tuners side step! Running an engine lean can increase fuel economy, and at times increase power, but, at the high risk of motor damage, running lean in a high load/RPM can and will kill an engine long term. People who claim all these miracle extra HP and better fuel economy need to realise that unless a bigger prop is needed, then a certain prop at a certain RPM is just the same with or without a tune. Most “claimed” HP increase is above the previous max RPM.

[Corry]

Ive never understood how they can claim more power but less fuel consumption. More power must require more fuel especially with constant load applications. I just dont get it.

I also used to think along the lines of how can you get more power with less fuel, until we moved into fuel injection and computers with the street cars we play with. From factory, they are made for fuel economy and no noise, along with massive longevity to prevent warranty claims, the window of 'safety' for the manufacturer is massive. Our 79 Cruiser, that constantly carries 900kg, and is only used for towing, either the boat at 2.6t or the car trailer at 3.5t has much better fuel economy and responsiveness once tuned than what it did from factory.
If you look at Dyno Tuning, fuel efficiency is gained by ensuring that the air fuel ratio and ignition timing is refined to a point to optimise every drop of fuel efficiently. And before we talk about cars having a gearbox, dyno tuning is done in a single gear, whether it be 3rd or 4th, depending on the box. It is tuning under load throughout the rev range.

Maybe your boat was designed to do exactly what it is doing at the speed you are getting from the max recommended engine on the back.
Ive just addded an additional 40 hp to my boat. Ive tried 5 different props with these engines, adjusted heights etc and only get 4kph more top speed at wot than I got with the smaller engines.

For me, I'm not chasing top end speed, I'm already pulling 65kph, which is more than enough (most of the time), I'm wanting more hole shot. I don't believe the boat was rated correctly at factory. Max of 200hp on a 6.5m glass boat is a little under rated, I believe. It's commonly known that higher HP outboards don't necessarily give higher top end speed, but I'm not sure what the recipe is for hole shot. I do believe that a different outboard may give a complete different hole shot, a V8 Merc ProXS 200hp compared to our current Yamaha 4cyl 200hp for example.

I have gained at cruising speed by running a larger prop and fewer RPM at the same speed as the old engines but fuel consumption has increased a tiny bit.

The only way to really gain cruising speed from running a larger prop is to have the torque to do it, not HP. Torque is the pulling power, HP is the RPM.

But what this exercise tells me is that the boat's design is the limiting factor and I shouldnt expect it to do more than what it was designed to do.

Again, for me, I don't believe the boat is anywhere near it's design limits, just under powered (torque not HP)

From the research I've been doing on re-tuning, or re-mapping of Outboards, I haven't been able to find out if there is a definitive way for anyone to prove that you've achieved what you've set out to achieve. With vehicles, any reputable tuner will be able to show all the parameters pre and post the tune, torque curve, HP, air fuel ratio, ignition timing etc. It is frowned upon to use the plug and play approach as each vehicle is different, and will react differently to a tune, so doing the 'send me your ECU and we'll remap it and send it back' isn't really the best option.
For these reasons, I'm not pursuing getting a tune done any time soon, I think the improvement I'm chasing can only be done with a re-power, which with a motor with 300hrs on it, I don't think it's worth it. It is in for it's 300hr service in a couple of weeks so I will entertain getting a change over price for a new outboard, but this will mean getting the hull uprated as well, which from what I've found with this hull is really easy to do.

[disorderly]

I do believe that a different outboard may give a complete different hole shot, a V8 Merc ProXS 200hp compared to our current Yamaha 4cyl 200hp for example.





so I will entertain getting a change over price for a new outboard, but this will mean getting the hull uprated as well, which from what I've found with this hull is really easy to do.

I think thats it in a nutshell....you are expecting too much of a small block 4 cyl version of a 200 to think its going to jump out of the hole anything like a V8 200 would...

2.8l 4 cyl vs 4.6l V8.....its going to be like that old ETEC ad where the ETEC pulls the other boat backwards..

You are only going to be able to wring so much out of that small block yammie motor anyway so if you have the cash your solution to just upgrade is the best option IMO....

What motor are you considering..?

[Corry]

I think thats it in a nutshell....you are expecting too much of a small block 4 cyl version of a 200 to think its going to jump out of the hole anything like a V8 200 would...

2.8l 4 cyl vs 4.6l V8.....its going to be like that old ETEC ad where the ETEC pulls the other boat backwards..

You are only going to be able to wring so much out of that small block yammie motor anyway so if you have the cash your solution to just upgrade is the best option IMO....

What motor are you considering..?

Yeah, I can't believe that Yamaha build a 4cyl 200hp, but then again, Toyota are now doing a 4cyl Landcruiser Ute and people are going to think they're great, until they need the torque, or engine breaking.

Options aren't too great, with Yamaha 200's there's only the VMax that is a V6, but I don't know too much about them.

To go any bigger in Yamaha is to have the boat re-rated, but at least it would talk to the MFD's and Yamaha display the same as it does now. I've heard of the 360M's being re-rated up to 275hp, without the need to modify anything. But even the 250hp is still only a V6.

Ideally I'd love to change over to a Mercury ProXS. The one I have on one of our other boats is brilliant. I could stick with the 200hp, at least it's V8, but I think if I went for a brand change, I'd also do the re-rate and probably step up to whatever I could get it re-rated to. I'd just have to look at what type of gauge cluster Mercury could provide, hopefully something similar to the Yamaha one so I'm not trying to redo the console as well.

Lots to think about, money isn't a deciding factor, but keeping logical is, I've still got to get my head around getting rid of a near new motor, I just wish Cruise Craft weren't in cahoots with Yamaha, could've been easier to start with.

[Noelm]

Why is Cruise Craft in “cahoots” with Yamaha?

[Corry]

Why is Cruise Craft in “cahoots” with Yamaha?

They have partnered with them so use their outboards. All their dealer network are Yamaha dealers.

[Flex]

I think if you choose the right outboard to tune you will get significant gains.
But you need an understanding of props etc aswell.

So in addition to your tune you will also need to fork out for a prop change.

If you own outboard on the low end of your HP range for given block size then its likely worth it. alot of people are simply ignorant and slap a tune on their eg140hp suzuki or 70hp yamaha. dont change props then whinge about it.

you will gain nothing from a tune unless you swap props ( go up pitch or 2 generally).

its hard to do alot with the naturally aspirated 4 strokes so you need to be careful what size HP you are tuning. cant really play with fuel pressures etc unlike all the diesel utes that get tuned as alot more things can be tweaked.

I feel more people should educate themselves on props before tuning , You are better off with a jacking plate and a new prop half the time and you will get excellent gains.

From my experience most Aussies's knowledge is horrible on propellers. Even dealers are useless, compared to the yanks our average knowledge base on props is shameful. run the right prop and you can lift your motor a hole and really gain alot.