I really don't know, bms maybeOriginally Posted by Noelm
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I really don't know, bms maybe
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Didn't someone post an article a while ago about how the US coast guard looked into the fire risk associated with lithium batteries?
If I recall correctly they could not get the LiFePO batteries to burn as Ranmar said without accelerant.
TMC
Lithium batteries can damage trolling motors - particularly if you use full power. The manufacturers (of trolling motors) usually give warnings about this.
Has anyone here run the new Lithium Ion start batteries? Itecworld do a decently priced one that looks decent.
at 7kg I’m seriously considering running 2 of these . Although I’m yet to hear back from tech if they can easily be run in parallel for start/house arrangements
I know 1 guy that fitted an I-Tech cranking battery....he ended up having to fit a stand alone house battery as well as the crank battery wasn't large enough to run his electronics and the cranking for the day.
He does have a lot of electronics though....be worth investigating.
I am holding off with the lithiums for the new generation aluminium batteries.....similar capacities and weight, faster charge and discharge rates, completely stable and robust. UQ proven technology and they will be far cheaper than lithium batteries. Fully recyclable is a big bonus too.
Jack.
There’s a lot of new EVs burning in China these days and I know a lot of scooter problems are from the lithium polymer cells.
I would not leave a lithium in a boat charging over night I’d pull it outside will charging there light enough to do so ,that’s were a lot of the problems arise from if the BMS has a wobbly and over charges.
The 600cca battery only has 12 amps if that’s the one your thinking of, just not enough amp hours ,which I find a bit odd for a 600 cca starter battery.
the BMS is purely a protection feature. Meant to shut down charging if the set parameters are met. If forced to do it’s job under high loads they can go all magic smoke but should shit down the inflow of current into the cells. The charger on the other hand has to also either seriously malfunction or have a custom charge profile that is way out of spec. LifePo4 cells have a full charge at 14.6v before damage occurs.
The standard Victron charge profile is set to only 14.2v but you’ll notice the bulk charge phase will slow right down once above 14.1v and the amps will slow to a trickle so that the cells can saturate. The difference between 14.2 and 14.6v in the state of charge is next to nothing. Get a good quality charger and you should be fine.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
September 2022 Newsletter
ABYC President's Message
Common Sense
ABYC is built on a tradition of common sense and real world experiences. Early in my technical days, I was told ABYC designed the Standards so the backyard boatbuilder could achieve desired results. Testing and methodology were crafted in plain language for a “common sense” approach to a safe product.
We did not set aside best engineering practices for simplicity; the technical committee is packed with engineers and data-crunchers overseeing the process of drafting and updating the Standards. This balance has helped ABYC create useable, reliable, and relevant documents that help to achieve an unmatched level of safety in our industry. This is why, when the US Coast Guard asked us to look into potential problems with Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO 4) batteries on boats, we jumped at the chance.
The ABYC Technical Department, with input from the industry, recreated a number of scenarios based on accident narratives that claimed LiFePO 4 batteries to be the cause of a fire. In our on-site test lab, our team subjected batteries to conditions ranging from “normal” operations to extreme use and abuse. We purchased units built for the marine environment with robust battery management systems. We also included recycled batteries available from mass retailers, with an “optional” battery management system and no clear instructions from the battery or cell manufacturer. We tried to replicate sketchy behavior which is the fear of insurance companies and regulators alike.
Do you know what we found? We couldn’t start the fire (Sorry Billy Joel). We witnessed swollen cells, completely dead batteries, and multiple safety cutoffs (when not bypassed). We had a very hot summer here in MD. Even the high heat didn’t come close to a spontaneous combustion scenario.
We arranged calls with industry experts, and we asked them what we might be missing in our testing. What can we throw at these batteries to replicate the accidents we were hearing about? No one had anything to add, short of putting these batteries directly in a fire (which we did). We were able to add LiFePO 4 batteries to a local International Association of Arson Investigators (IAAI) boat burn--even there, no one detected any indication that the batteries themselves contributed to the fire. Many of us were fully expecting a report where we were able to replicate an unsafe situation and make some recommendations.
Our full report will be sent to the USCG in due course, and then ABYC will report on our findings. This being a mere President's letter please take it as what it is: My observations while watching our Technical Department do some great work. But, the research and testing may show us that we must take this discussion to the test labs for another round. Our common sense approach to testing has proven again to be the foundation for getting to the bottom of a scenario many of us (including myself) thought would reveal itself in short order. Stand by for formal reporting as we continue our work.
- John
jadey@abycinc.org
I sw another article today out of the US, and the problems with the cheap e-bikes and e-scooters for the operators who work for "gig economy" operators like Grubhub and the providers of courier services. These are huge employers in the lower income parts of New York. The workers, of course, have to buy their own. So they buy cheap, no-name bikes, with cheap, no-name batteries and chargers. And they burn at a terrifying rate. There are literally thousands of these things on charge at any given time. And often in the foyer of a tenement, which sends fire straight up the stairwell when they go bad. Their choices? Buy a cheap unit for $300, or a UL-certified unit for $3,000. Barely enough money to make a living from even if you have only paid $300 for the transport to do it with. So no-one has the good ones.
The joys of the "gig economy". And the article laid the blame squarely at the feet of the cheap, no-name, batteries. Not something which is certified. They do not have a problem. So don't be pointing out e-bike and scooter fires as an example of the "risks" of Lithium. To point it out YET AGAIN--these cheap batteries are LITHIUM ION. Cheap badly made lithium Ion is a really bad idea, so much energy saturation and thermal instability. Like the batteries in your phone. Not LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE. Alchemy has found the article I was quoting from, good on him. As they point out, many fires had been blamed on LiFePo4 batteries ( like old mate who said "the lithium batteries had exploded" ). More likely the lithium batteries were the victim, not the culprit.
[QUOTE=Flex;1703740]Has anyone here run the new Lithium Ion start batteries? Itecworld do a decently priced one that looks decent.
I’ve been running an FPV 7.5kg starter lithium iron phosphate + supercapacitor battery on my big diesel inboard for the last 18 months. https://www.fpv-power.com.au/product...rid25ahbattery
Given small, light size I was initially cautious about longevity and start cycles available, however so far it’s been flawless and the 1900 CCA cranking amps spins the motor effortlessly.
I run a seperate VoltX 300Ah LiFePO for the house (200A continuous, 400A peak, 3 years old and still working 100%)
[QUOTE=Monza;1703809]That’s amazing I can’t get my head around 25 amps putting out 1900 cca and spinning a diesel for a 7.5 kg battery and that’s a great price for a starter.
[QUOTE=chris69;1703857]It would be ok for just starting a boat but not for using the anchor winch which has a large continuous draw of power. The battery powers a super capacitor which can only run briefly from what I understand.
One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce and canonized those who complain.
Thomas Sowell
So you can buy just the supercapacitors for $150 .
Edit : you can get 6cells for $65 and a equalizer board fo $20 thats even bettera.
[QUOTE=Dignity;1703858]Exactly. The supercapacitors will only give 5-10 good crank attempts until they are depleted. The main battery may then need to take a minute or two to recharge the caps. If using (for example) a winch continuously, once the caps are depleted, power falls back to the lithium battery component (25AH capacity, 60A max power draw) which may not be enough to run a large device. That’s why I run a seperate house battery for other accessories like winches, with a DC DC charger between them.
My main reason for the lithium/super cap battery was battery life (sick of replacing heavy lead batteries every few years), weight (30kg vs 7.5kg) and cranking power (fast cranking = quicker starts)
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