Batteries not for trolling motors

[chris69]

Just read something on a lithium battery sellers site saying this battery is not for under the bonnet or trolling motors we’re moisture and heat may affect them,I know a few have them under there boat floors for trolling motors so are some getting too hot under the floors and making condensation inside the battery and corroding the BMS or shorting out the cells while siting in the sun at home or out fishing.

I found this very interesting to mention trolling motors as I think a lot have bought the 135amp lithiums for this purpose and must be getting a few returned has anyone heard of this happening before.

[rayken1938]

Would pertain that the bms can not handle sustained discharge of 50 amps,

[NAGG]

This is why it is buyer beware when it comes to LiFePO$ batteries - do your homework

There are Lithium batteries that are made for under the bonnet like the Lithumax cranking batteries - built for race cars

Then there are others (deep cycle) with a quality build & BMS which will take a large discharge / recharge - sealed properly with temp sensors (hot & cold) .

Then there is plenty of crappy batteries that are literally just slapped together with some packing & are sold to the unsuspecting joe average .

If you are going to buy a cheap battery - buy it from a local outlet such as RTM or even KINGS ....... at least if something goes wrong you will get local support.


Chris

[Lovey80]

In spite of marketing I wouldn’t be putting a lithium under a bonnet where sustained temps could be north of 65 degrees. It’s a lot of money to be degraded in that fashion. If you’re driving a race car then that sacrifice may be worth the weight saving.

as for boats, the BMS is a critical feature of a battery. If it’s not sealed in any way and the circuit board is exposed it’s a problem waiting to happen.

[chris69]

[es QUOTE=rayken1938;1703665]Would pertain that the bms can not handle sustained discharge of 50 amps,[/QUOTE]

No these batteries had a 100 amp draw and then upgraded to a 150 amp continuous draw.

[chris69]

In spite of marketing I wouldn’t be putting a lithium under a bonnet where sustained temps could be north of 65 degrees. It’s a lot of money to be degraded in that fashion. If you’re driving a race car then that sacrifice may be worth the weight saving.

as for boats, the BMS is a critical feature of a battery. If it’s not sealed in any way and the circuit board is exposed it’s a problem waiting to happen.

Yer agree 100% putting a battery that can be a little volatile if damaged under a bonnet is a problem, and under a front deck getting pounded will test any battery’s construction.

[seastrength]

Yer agree 100% putting a battery that can be a little volatile if damaged under a bonnet is a problem, and under a front deck getting pounded will test any battery’s construction.

I had my motor serviced recently and the mechanic showed me a photo of a burnt out 7m plate alloy half cabin on a trailer. Apparently the two underfloor lithium batteries for the trolling motor were being charged overnight and exploded (his words, not mine) causing considerable damage. Not sure if it was a failed charger, BMS or overheating in a sealed compartment.

[NAGG]

In spite of marketing I wouldn’t be putting a lithium under a bonnet where sustained temps could be north of 65 degrees. It’s a lot of money to be degraded in that fashion. If you’re driving a race car then that sacrifice may be worth the weight saving.

as for boats, the BMS is a critical feature of a battery. If it’s not sealed in any way and the circuit board is exposed it’s a problem waiting to happen.

If a battery is designed for that purpose & correctly installed then there shouldn't be an issue ..... the trouble is that most LiFePO$ batteries are not designed for the application.

I've been using LiFePO$ for quite a few years now to run my Minn Kota - I've also had one in my cars canopy for the last 3 1/2 years without any issues ....... but they are quality batteries (Enerdrive & Fusion) . They are maintained with a quality DCDC charger (Enerdrive) or Victron Blue smart chargers in the boats.

For the last couple of years my Barcrusher has been running a Lithumax cranking / hybrid & a LiFePO4 house battery ....... with the only issue being a shut down when I drained both batteries due to not enough charging time over a week fishing a small barra dam (something I didn't consider when running two big sounders drawing 10amps combined)

Chris

[docaster]

I had my motor serviced recently and the mechanic showed me a photo of a burnt out 7m plate alloy half cabin on a trailer. Apparently the two underfloor lithium batteries for the trolling motor were being charged overnight and exploded (his words, not mine) causing considerable damage. Not sure if it was a failed charger, BMS or overheating in a sealed compartment.

Crikey, i would like to know the details about that. Lithium phosphate are supposed to be safe. And i would assume they would be of reasonable quality if they were in parallel. I bought a cheap one, seemed good and bought another a few months later. Asked afterwords if i could parallel them and no was the answer. I assumed because of the cells not balanced properly. I only use them for the fridge, works good.

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[Lovey80]

If a battery is designed for that purpose & correctly installed then there shouldn't be an issue ..... the trouble is that most LiFePO$ batteries are not designed for the application.

I've been using LiFePO$ for quite a few years now to run my Minn Kota - I've also had one in my cars canopy for the last 3 1/2 years without any issues ....... but they are quality batteries (Enerdrive & Fusion) . They are maintained with a quality DCDC charger (Enerdrive) or Victron Blue smart chargers in the boats.

For the last couple of years my Barcrusher has been running a Lithumax cranking / hybrid & a LiFePO4 house battery ....... with the only issue being a shut down when I drained both batteries due to not enough charging time over a week fishing a small barra dam (something I didn't consider when running two big sounders drawing 10amps combined)

Chris

fairly hard to design a LifePo4 to withstand engine/turbo temperatures.

I’m running lithium for start and house battery on my tinny. Using a VSR with the voltage wire cut and spliced into the wiring loom so that they’re only in parallel when the ignition is on. That way the start battery can’t be drawn down by the Minnkota or electronics. It does require constant monitoring of the start battery when the boat is doing lots of running so the voltage doesn’t spike but easily managed.

[Lovey80]

Crikey, i would like to know the details about that. Lithium phosphate are supposed to be safe. And i would assume they would be of reasonable quality if they were in parallel. I bought a cheap one, seemed good and bought another a few months later. Asked afterwords if i could parallel them and no was the answer. I assumed because of the cells not balanced properly. I only use them for the fridge, works good.

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I have often wondered about this. A number of batteries/BMS’ state no parallel configuration. But how would they decipher charge coming from another battery instead of a charging source. Being LifePo4 even if they’re almost flat being put in parallel to a full battery the flat voltages of the chemistry mean that there won’t be huge amp flows between them.

very few lithiums have proper active balancers in them which means it’s left to the BMS to attempt to do it. They all struggle badly to achieve it. Even if you have one with cells out of balance or even both, I can’t see where it’s going to be an issue.

[ranmar850]

Lithium Iron Phosphate--LIFePo cells ARE safe. Lithium Ion are not. There was a thread on THT from an insurance underwriter who , naturally having an interest in this subject, decided to do the testing for themselves. Very wide useage of LiFePo4 cells in both new and retrofit. With an accredited lab handling it. Long story short, the only way they could get the ones tested to burn was to add accelerant and make them burn like anything else would.No, you can't make them burn by piercing them, it just leaks out. Now, if you drop a heavy gauge short across the terminals, the BMS should just cut out before anything gets hot enough to burn. Of course if you are cell-side of the BMS, all bets are off. Just as they are with a lead-acid battery. So, short external terminals on a LiFePo, the BMS should take care of it. Actually much safer than than a lead-acid in that respect, and also no highly explosive hydrogen floating around. You want a battery explosion? Get just one spark near a charging lead-acid battery, you have a real explosion, believe me. DAMHIK.

Old mate the boat mechanic said they "exploded" . This is how facebook/internet bs gets propagated, and repeated in ignorance. Like docaster, I'd like to see the actual investigation--my bet is that an electrical malfunction totally unrelated to the battery chemistry caused a fire. The fact that the blaze probably melted everything associated with the battery and made it look like they "exploded" means stuff all. Do you blokes think that nothing has ever caught fire and burnt to the ground during battery charging prior to this? Regardless of battery chemistry. All too common, unfortunately. And please don't start talking about these cheap scooters with cheap Lithium Ion batteries catching fire during charging on their cheap chargers.. Different chemistry.

I saw an interesting one on EV fires the other day. Sweden has a very high uptake of EV's on their roads. Naturally, an EV fire gets attention, as it does here. Diesel, petrol and LPG vehicles burn all the time, no news interest in that. Back to Sweden--figures were released on vehicle fires by propulsion category for 2022, and EV's had LESS THAN HALF the incidence of fires than petrol and diesel did. You think your 70 series landcruiser can't just catch fire as you drive? I've seen it, a geo was driving a 70 series ute down the highway on the way to our site. Engine suddenly stopped. Rolled to halt off the side of the road. Smoke issuing from under bonnet, flames appear, fire extinguisher is emptied at fire, keeps burning until it burnt to the ground.

[Noelm]

Without a bit more specific detail, I find it hard to believe they can't be run in parallel.

[ranmar850]

Crikey, i would like to know the details about that. Lithium phosphate are supposed to be safe. And i would assume they would be of reasonable quality if they were in parallel. I bought a cheap one, seemed good and bought another a few months later. Asked afterwords if i could parallel them and no was the answer. I assumed because of the cells not balanced properly. I only use them for the fridge, works good.

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Did they give a reason as to why they couldn't be paralleled? It may be as simple as the fact that the BMS on the battery was not designed for parallel operation--many are not,particularly the cheaper ones. You need to read all the specs. The more expensive BMS's will allow parallel operation, as well as series, up to a set limit.

[docaster]

No, didn't say why, they are the cheapest off ebay. Probably the bms then

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