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Trim tabs every day of the week ....... an autopilot is a nice to have when doing those long trips but trim tabs are the best way to get a comfortable & balanced ride in any condition .
Chris.
G'day all.
The missus and I have found a few spare dollars to put towards the new boat and we're currently debating between trim tabs (pretty set on ZipWake) or an Auto-pilot device (Raymarine to match the rest of the gear).
For some background, we have a 23ft fibreglass boat with a 17 degree deadrise. We tend to do longer runs when we fish (Manly to outside Cape Moreton) and longer stretches when we get away for reef trips (250km return trips).
It sits quite steady in most seas, mild to wild and the only time I've wished for them is when I have more than 2 onboard and the port / starboard balance is off. I've never felt the need for trim tabs however I have never owned a boat with them so I can't possibly know what I'm missing.
I've spoken with knowledgeable guys who swear by them, even adding that they'd never own another boat without them. Besides the side to side balance the holeshot and trimming of the bow makes sense to me. This alone has me convinced although it leads to my dilemma. Do I purchase and install trim tabs or auto pilot first?
We know deep down both will be eventually installed on the boat so I'm interested to know what others would choose first (given that the time between purchase of both options will likely be a year or so)?
Cheers!
Trim tabs every day of the week ....... an autopilot is a nice to have when doing those long trips but trim tabs are the best way to get a comfortable & balanced ride in any condition .
Chris.
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
I would imagine if trim tabs are needed they are needed. If you’re not getting enough bow control with engine trim, and a foil won’t fix it, then trim tabs would be the priority. Possibly try to foil first as it’s a cheaper fix and if that works you get the autopilot.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
I have both in in 6.8 platey (zipwakes and garmin), in my last rig and tighter budget i had trim tabs.
For me trim tabs and hence some control over ride and handling is a bigger priority than not holding the steering wheel. This said once you have had a pilot you will never go back, i very rareley travel wothout it on, such a nice luxury but i think tabs really go along way to making a boat better. Go the trim tabs for me.
Scott
I'll be the dissenter here----Auto pilot every day of the week. I made a point of getting them when I fitted out the new Reefrunner. "everyone" said you need trim tabs on any larger boat, I took that at face value. After playing with them a lot intially, I came to the realisation that they were really only any value, on that hull, under limited circumstances. The auto pilot, on the other hand, will get used every time I am out. Did anyone else read your post and notice you do really long runs?
A few things to be aware of with trim tabs--you can only bring a bow down, and you are doing that by adding a lot of drag by putting the tabs down into the water at an angle to water flow. So they are instantly costing you money. They can get you on the plane earlier, but again, offset is with fuel. Of course, there is the application of one tab to try to level you if running across a strong wind, and the boat is leaning into it. My hull, for example, will plane at 12.5 knots with some tab down, 13.7 knots with no tab. My only use for them now ( apart from crosswind) is if I am head on into really bad conditions--not just some slop, but a full-blown southerly over 20 knots, with 1.5.to 2 metres of sea. The sort of stuff you try to avoid being out in. A combination of some tab ( not max) and engine trim sees me doing a fairly comfortable 13-14 knots, with the odd chop of the throttle. On the pilot, btw. As soon as you get into some slight shelter, and the seas are only a metre, the tabs come right off and the speed comes up. Because I found that having tabs forcing the bow down actually has a negative effect on ride in all but the very worst of conditions. You need to be coming down on the aft section of the hull in a variable deadrise deep vee, not the bow. People forget that. and for gods sake, don't forget to raise them fully if you turn and head downwind, can be dangerous if left down.
Of course, this is just my experience in a thousand hours on this hull, in all kinds of conditions. If your hull needs them, well, get them. Some hulls are poor in that respect, and/or their balance is all wrong. Start with a bad hull, you need to compensate. Just don't think they will do some amazing transformation for you.
The auto pilot, on the other hand, is a big fuel and effort saver on long runs--anyone who claims to be able to steer a perfect course by compass alone for several hours heading to the empty horizon is full of s**t. And I won't back down from that statement, I drove boats for a living for decades. You mention having a Raymarine setup--I have the Raymarine autopilot, brilliant bit of kit. Just pick the waypoint you are heading to, select Go To, then Steer to Nav, and it takes you there. In a straight line. Automatically corrects for set and drift ( wind and tide) by looking at the course required vs the actual boat heading needed to get there. In a strong tide, it's amazing to see how much offset there is, your heading flash can be as much as a steady 15 degrees off course, while the boat is staying dead on the line of course. If you were just trying to steer to a heading you would have ended up doing a great big curve to get there.
Once you actually have had an autopilot, you will hate being without one, just so useful.
yeah i will say autopilot as well. you will use it every single time and trully does make driving way more relaxing on longer trips.
that.. and from it sounds like, your boat sits reasonable at present.
Agree with Ranmar. I had a Haines with manually operated hydraulic trim tabs. They did level the boat especially into a side wind and did help plane at a lower speed, but at the price of extra drag.
I have a Raymarine auto pilot on a Kevlacat and like Ranmar states, you can visualise how much offset there is at times from boat heading to actual course.
One thing with the autopilot is that I have a rudder feedback transmitter which I reckon is better than the virtual rudder setup.
For me having Zipwakes fitted and an AP and given a choice of only one it would be the AP. Your doing bigger runs than we normally do. We average around 120k round trip. Like most of us we try to boat in favourable conditions so don't use the tabs constantly. To quote something said before once you have had an AP you wouldn't be with out one.
TMC
Interesting, on the rudder feedback unit vs the virtual rudder( EV-1?). Is this on an inboard-powered boat? I have found the EV-1 sensor core to be just bloody brilliant. I have long and sometimes frustrating experience with autopilots on larger boats, which always used a rudder feedback unit. ( Robertson and Furuno) The RFU input was mostly the source of the problem--correct mounting, then adjustment of gain and whatever else it was using( can't remember now) was difficult--some just worked OK, others never did. Mostly around a large following sea, where it would not correct quickly enough to avoid a potential broach,terrifying with a heavy load of pots on deck, and you had to be constantly ready to take over. Or just be fishtailing you all over the ocean. I suppose they have gotten better now.Originally Posted by Danf
The only "problem" I have had with the EV-1 was when it started to do really slow course corrections, wandering off then slowly correcting--a quick interrogation of the setting showed it was in Leisure? ( yacht) mode after a system update. It thinks its a yacht, doing 22 knots.Went back to where it had originally been ( Cruise?) , problem solved.
Trim tabs can help a lot with side on wind, nothing like the boat smacking down flat on one side because you need to turn into the wind, creating a lean.....no amount of self steering will relieve that feeling after an hour or so!
Having done heaps of offshore long distance trips and knowing what its like getting youracehole pounded when its atad on the choppy side i would Voye 1 for trim tabs!!.. Went without them for so long and didnt realise how needy they could be at days end..
Sure Auto Pilot is nice to have on those long trips so you can lay back and give your arms n hands a rest but giving the back a rest and ease upp i think is a tad more important, fro me anyways..
The rudder feedback unit is on a twin outboard Kevlacat with a single cylinder connected to both motors. The cylinder is mounted under the rear duck board.Interesting, on the rudder feedback unit vs the virtual rudder( EV-1?). Is this on an inboard-powered boat? I have found the EV-1 sensor core to be just bloody brilliant. I have long and sometimes frustrating experience with autopilots on larger boats, which always used a rudder feedback unit. ( Robertson and Furuno) The RFU input was mostly the source of the problem--correct mounting, then adjustment of gain and whatever else it was using( can't remember now) was difficult--some just worked OK, others never did. Mostly around a large following sea, where it would not correct quickly enough to avoid a potential broach,terrifying with a heavy load of pots on deck, and you had to be constantly ready to take over. Or just be fishtailing you all over the ocean. I suppose they have gotten better now.
The only "problem" I have had with the EV-1 was when it started to do really slow course corrections, wandering off then slowly correcting--a quick interrogation of the setting showed it was in Leisure? ( yacht) mode after a system update. It thinks its a yacht, doing 22 knots.
Definitely agree, the best use of trim tabs. You want the vee to be working, rather than be coming down on the flatter part.. Now, a question here--do the auto things like zipwakes automatically compensate for this, or is it always a manual process?
Consider the route first - not just the desktop theory. That's an ultra-busy stretch of water you're referring to with everything from scores of sailing dinghies and larger mono sail boats racing around the bayside islands; to a squillion power boats heading down to Peel Island or up to Tangas to dodge. You're then into a major shipping channel where container ships turn from the island into the Brisbane River and further up again, you've got the Redcliffe - Moreton Island east west, boat traffic. And you're thinking auto-pilot over trim tabs? You've got constantly shifting sand banks to navigate, you've got various shifting channels and constantly-changing wind-on water - the belting south-easters through the gap between Straddie and Moreton, exposure to the strong summer northerlies and the big southerly busters and the winter westerlies. Do yourself a favour and go trim tabs first and avoid the "flick on" "flick off" auto pilot piano playing. And that's before a gazillion crab pots floats and ropes throughout the entire journey and people trolling and casting for macks. And what about the jetski tour traffic and the kids in their high powered dinghies? Let's not forget the paraflying craft either carving their big figure eights or the turtles and very occasionally, a whale calf that slid down the wrong side of Moreton (inside). Brother, you need to be at the helm and on the ball at all times. Now if you were talking about doing the Gladstone eastern run to the reefs for 80km - 120km each way or across Hervey Bay up to Breaksea Spit as the most common destinations, then perhaps a different argument. But for that Moreton Bay route with the short, sharp chop across shallow water with the boat trying (to some degree) to lean into cross winds, trim tabs every time as the first choice. It's safer and more comfortable.
Agree with Noel and Ranmar here...I had my Supervee for 12 months before installing trim tabs..even moving eskies and crew around the boat to try and ensure even weight distribution works only a fraction of how good trim tabs work particularly in this situation where a deep vee boat will lean into the wind and if you are ploughing through a quartering sea it will get old real quick if you are slapping into chop or swell ...they turn a nightmare of a trip into a an absolute breeze...
Some good advice there......The first job my missus had when moving permanantly to Mission Beach FNQ 25 yrs back was on the dive boat Quickcat guiding scuba divers o the reef with a local young fella that grew up on a sailboat and had spent his life on the sea as a diver and fisherman...
He was skippering his Pro fishing boat just 1 Km off Bowen a few years back when he was T-boned by a 110 foot Tug...He died..tragically surviving the inital impact and capsize, but drowned while trying to rescue his crewmate trapped under/inside the hull..Inquest found both vessels on autopilot in perfect conditions but with NO lookout on either boat..
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...df50b4b90b75d4
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