Could it be the beginning of the ending for gas power?

[baitable]

Dont forget Hydrogen is compressed gas: would be very hard as a fuel source in a boat and has no where near the efficiency as petrol or diesel (think its currently 30% vs 60%): i'm sure this will improve with time. Any battery will still have charging and weight implications. Dont get me wrong- i'm all for alternative fuels but when you take into account: Weight, safety, efficiency, reliability- fossil fuels are a long way ahead...

For the gap to substantially close ie as a suitable fuel use for a boat:

Batteries will need to be super light, recharge in an instant, be chemically stable, be constructed from viable materials (lithium is somewhat limited) and be affordable.

Hydrogen : I cant see a compressed gas being a viable fuel alternative in a boat. Fuel tanks would need a period inspection. All hose fittings would need to be bullet proof and corrosion of fittings would need to be sorted (hydrogen is stored under some pretty high pressure). With the lower efficiencies of the fuel i'm asusming you would need to carry more weight than the fossil fuel equivalent.

Nuclear: Dont think we will see boats with a mini nuclear reactor on board... Yes nuclear power can be used to create power which can then be stored for the use within a battery but that brings us back to point 1.

It easy to hypothesise that the gaps can be closed but if we go to that extent then where do we stop- dont forget we are currently working within the first law of thermodynamics- were merely transferring energy from one form to the next? I'm just laying down the facts of what we have available to us with our current technology. If i was a betting man my money is on batteries but electric motors/ reliability and suitability in salt water environments has me raising an eyebrow.

[disorderly]

Here , found this today here it comes https://www.evoy.no/outboard/

whats the story there, Matt..?

They have just superimposed green stickers on an Etec and called them a new Electric motor..
electric etec.jpgElectric etec2.jpg

The main issue i have with electric motors is that when you get home you plug the batteries in and recharge with energy predominately generated from Coal...

So how is that winning..?

[bluefin59]

whats the story there, Matt..?

They have just superimposed green stickers on an Etec and called them a new Electric motor..
electric etec.jpgElectric etec2.jpg

The main issue i have with electric motors is that when you get home you plug the batteries in and recharge with energy predominately generated from Coal...

So how is that winning..?

True no win at all just another problem as far as I can see and yeah they do have an etec look about them , I’m guessing my next boat is a 4 smoker [emoji14]

[disorderly]

I’m guessing my next boat is a 4 smoker [emoji14]

We dont really have a choice anymore Matt..

I actually think its a shame to see the Etec gone...

After all that R@D to get a 2 stroke as fuel and oil efficient and emission free and on par with 4 strokes as they did was a great achievement..

[TheRealPoMo]

Dont forget Hydrogen is compressed gas: would be very hard as a fuel source in a boat and has no where near the efficiency as petrol or diesel (think its currently 30% vs 60%): i'm sure this will improve with time. Any battery will still have charging and weight implications. Dont get me wrong- i'm all for alternative fuels but when you take into account: Weight, safety, efficiency, reliability- fossil fuels are a long way ahead...

For the gap to substantially close ie as a suitable fuel use for a boat:

Batteries will need to be super light, recharge in an instant, be chemically stable, be constructed from viable materials (lithium is somewhat limited) and be affordable.

Hydrogen : I cant see a compressed gas being a viable fuel alternative in a boat. Fuel tanks would need a period inspection. All hose fittings would need to be bullet proof and corrosion of fittings would need to be sorted (hydrogen is stored under some pretty high pressure). With the lower efficiencies of the fuel i'm asusming you would need to carry more weight than the fossil fuel equivalent.

Nuclear: Dont think we will see boats with a mini nuclear reactor on board... Yes nuclear power can be used to create power which can then be stored for the use within a battery but that brings us back to point 1.

It easy to hypothesise that the gaps can be closed but if we go to that extent then where do we stop- dont forget we are currently working within the first law of thermodynamics- were merely transferring energy from one form to the next? I'm just laying down the facts of what we have available to us with our current technology. If i was a betting man my money is on batteries but electric motors/ reliability and suitability in salt water environments has me raising an eyebrow.

I think that efficiency of H compared to Dinosaur juice is when you burn it in an engine. I have seen sources quoting that petrol engines are roughly 25% efficient at producing kenetic energy where a H fuel cell can be around 60% efficent to produce electrickery. Still loss in the motor downstream tho and your concerns around storage and plumbing completely valid.

I think the portable nuclear issue was solved in 2015 with Mr Fusion

[baitable]

Let’s play along and say we can somehow make any of this new technology work: there is still the basic physics of what a boat can carry/float and perform. Look at most builders plates and the payload is pretty small. Unless our solution is also blood light weight then it ain’t happening in a trailer boat.

Again I’m all for clean and renewable but we’re going to need some earth shattering technology to address a mountain of issues.

I think there is a heap more improvement to go in hydrofoil applications to lead to reduced drag.... but I’m no naval architect.

[gazza2006au]

When u guys think about it, a 25-30hp how much lithium power can u fit in a container the size of a 25 litre fuel tank

My answer? A absolute shit load, i donno what that mass of battery would weight to a full tank of fuel but they cant be far off

I actually have some lithium batteries right here in my hand if one of u smart cookies wanna convert it size and amp hour rating to a size of a fuel tank?

[Lovey80]

There are actually battery densities that are far superior to Lithium Ion. They’re just far too expensive to be commercially viable. I’m sure even with this current tech a boat could be viable for day trips. But no one wants a displacement hull trailerable boat that costs 3 million dollars.

[gazza2006au]

My little 18650 cells 3s1p isonly about 100mm long 40mm tall 40mm wide and its capacity is 3amps, times that pack by the size of a 25L fuel tank you'd get a shit load in there, 100 of those packs is 300amps

[Lovey80]

My little 18650 cells 3s1p isonly about 100mm long 40mm tall 40mm wide and its capacity is 3amps, times that pack by the size of a 25L fuel tank you'd get a shit load in there, 100 of those packs is 300amps

And an electric outboard capable of the equivalent of a 25hp outboard would probably get you about 5km at planning speeds in a small tinny.

[shakey55]

An interesting read

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/post-...f-marine-power


Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

[Noelm]

My little 18650 cells 3s1p isonly about 100mm long 40mm tall 40mm wide and its capacity is 3amps, times that pack by the size of a 25L fuel tank you'd get a shit load in there, 100 of those packs is 300amps

The issue is not producing 300 amps, it's (say) producing 200 amps for a decent period of time, then a quick, renewable way to charge it, no one wants to go out for an hour, then have to charge for 4 hours.

[baitable]

The issue is not producing 300 amps, it's (say) producing 200 amps for a decent period of time, then a quick, renewable way to charge it, no one wants to go out for an hour, then have to charge for 4 hours.

Gazza: you're thinking in 12v.... that just wont work in a boat.... even 36V wont be sufficent... take a step back and look at the size and weight of a 36v battery bank and a 36v electric motor. Now think about how fast that 36v motor can move a boat. Is this another attention grab?

[disorderly]

Gazza: you're thinking in 12v.... that just wont work in a boat.... even 36V wont be sufficent... take a step back and look at the size and weight of a 36v battery bank and a 36v electric motor. Now think about how fast that 36v motor can move a boat. Is this another attention grab?

Stop talking sense, man..!..

How do I know filling my gas tank with lithium batteries wont get my Honda 200 to the reef and back....?

I'd definitely try it except it would be a pain the get the batteries back out of the tank to charge them for the next trip...

[gazza2006au]

The issue is not producing 300 amps, it's (say) producing 200 amps for a decent period of time, then a quick, renewable way to charge it, no one wants to go out for an hour, then have to charge for 4 hours.

Yeah i hear u Noel hence my earlier comment of a high torque low amp draw motor than chuck a gearbox on it even if its 3:1-3:1-3:1 3 gear gearbox for instance

The 18650 batterys can be charged in 2 hours but lets keep it realistic with current lead acid, agm etc.. right now take more than 6 hours to charge anyway