The role that colour plays in catching fish.

[Dezzer]

Wow!!

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[Noelm]

Re "natural colours" way back in the heady days of the jigging craze (70s) I used to make my own jigs, my mate could get a supply of stainless flat bar, about 20mm X 6mm (1"X1/4") we cut them at various lengths and drilled a hole in each end, a split ring in each hole, and a treble on one, instant practically free jig (we even tied hooks to the top ring for jigging snaggy reef, which was unheard of back then) if we had time we painted the jigs all sorts of colours, but quickly realised that unpainted, dull stainless outfished every other colour by a long way, why? Don't really know, but maybe it mimicked a "natural" shiny fish colour? maybe it just stood out in 25m of water? but plain old dull stainless was the go to lure by a long shot.

[Ronje1]

Food for thought there Noel.

I have an observation for you, though.

At 25m in ocean water, the red and orange components of sunlight would certainly have faded out and the green and blue colours would also have been knocked around (depending on the water turbidity).

Shiny stainless steel under sunlight reflects it as a flash.

Sunlight has a predominantly orange component in its colour.

Those orange and red components of sunlight fade out well before 25 metres.

White light is a combination of ALL the colours but its only if they all reach the reflecting surface that the lure appears white.

As the differing colours drop out, the lure reflects the dominant colour in the area. In ocean water that's blue.

So the stainless steel lure takes on a blue hue as the predominant colour in the water is blue (it penetrates further than the others) and that's what get reflected.

At 25m of ocean water, is there much difference in what's being reflected by dull stainless steel and shiny bright stainless steel ? I wouldn't have thought that there'd be a lot

I'd suggest that it depends on the eye characteristics of any fish in the area. Some of those fish at 25m deep will be able to see colour and some wont. Depends on the species. That's why I was trying to find out about the eye characteristics of different species.

But they'll all see shades of grey using rods. I'd suggest that what's making the difference is the shade of grey that these fish can see and THAT depends on their eye's use of "rods".

I'd also suggest that a red, green or blue jig (once faded) would reflect a different shade of grey to the unpainted ones.

Could it be as simple as a unpainted s/s lure @ 25m, reflecting a shade of grey that's more readily seen by fish with particular arrangements of eye "rods"?

You got any thoughts ?

[disorderly]

Re "natural colours" way back in the heady days of the jigging craze (70s) I used to make my own jigs, my mate could get a supply of stainless flat bar, about 20mm X 6mm (1"X1/4") we cut them at various lengths and drilled a hole in each end, a split ring in each hole, and a treble on one, instant practically free jig (we even tied hooks to the top ring for jigging snaggy reef, which was unheard of back then) if we had time we painted the jigs all sorts of colours, but quickly realised that unpainted, dull stainless outfished every other colour by a long way, why? Don't really know, but maybe it mimicked a "natural" shiny fish colour? maybe it just stood out in 25m of water? but plain old dull stainless was the go to lure by a long shot.

Yeah interesting Noel...

A few years back when I was fishing some of the mackeral grounds with a heap of other boats I used to notice when the fish were not really biting and plenty of fisho's were sitting around with pillies floated out waiting for a bite, most of the pro dory fishermen would sound around and obviously find something on the sonar and then start vertical jigging...often pulling up fish after after fish on sometimes every drop...

I was pretty surprised that some were just using Noels flat stainless bar ..cut up..

I was a bit skeptical so I tried a few different jigs..cheap as possible as bites offs can be common..

Didnt see much difference in whatever was used as long as they were heavy enough to get to the bottom.

Then mainly used cheap kmart blue and silver jigs with a split ring and VMC treble upgrade..

Decided to go even cheaper and bought some stainless bar by the meter and cut it up ,drilled holes ,bent the ends to give a little flutter motion and fitted trebles..I dont even bother with a split ring on the other end just a perfection knot to allow the lure to move..

I personally havent noticed a difference in catch rates between these plain ones and a few different commercial ones with School, spottie, spanish macs with Trevally, Queenies and Tuna on the wrecks....and we often use a combination of either at the same time..and mostly fishing 20-40m.

I have been getting consistent hook ups on the homemade lures and had blokes that are not catching much on their side of the boat blame my lures and ask to use some of my store bought jigs and then watched as their catch rate didnt improve..

I think the anglers themselves are probably an important part of the equation..though like trained monkeys everybody can learn enough to catch to some degree...although how much does colour, lure motion, tide, moon, run etc come into it when the fish are biting shyly or shut down".?....thats much harder to determine scientifically and i guess thats whats Rons starting to explore here with his science of what they can actually see.. ...

I wonder if we will get a chance to explore those other factors involved in the whole picture of getting a fish to strike if this thread cleans up....?..

BTW, The only issue I have with the stainless ones is that these arent as heavy and so in current they dont get straight down as quickly and drift further out as they catch more current..

I might try polishing some up this Mackie season to make them as shiny as possible and see if that makes a difference..

I cant comment on barra as I have little experience there..

IMG_2153.jpg

[Noelm]

Yep, those plain flat ones in the middle are just like we used, no polish, no paint and we would get fish when others didn't, one of my mates was a pro at the time and made a living jigging Kingfish with a 4/0 Senator, 40lb mono, a rod built from a Butterworth JS980 blank and home made jigs.

[CT]

So the parameters such as moon and tide have changed slightly, but I'm still willing to test the system if I can get an actual recommendation. The waters still filthy and the hyacinth is still everywhere.

Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

Righto Ronnie, lets test the system.

Barra opener is a week away. The Fitzroy is currently filthy with water hyacinth everywhere having washed down from the freshwater reaches. We'll be three days after the moon with the low at Port Alma at 18:09, or about 20:33 at the barrage. Alternatively, if we’re stuck at work and have to wait until Saturday, we’ll be on the neaps with low at Port Alma at 11:22, or at the barrage at 13:31.

Let’s say I’m an average punter with a small tinny, an electric and a reasonable side scan sonar. I’ve got a mix of hard bodies, vibes and soft plastics and a cast net.

So, where do I go, and what do I do?

Cheers

[Ronje1]

Ronje, I’m 100% you know exactly what they mean when they say “natural” colours.

And I'm 100% that you know bugger all about reading minds, Lovey.

You don't reckon that neither red or green are natural colours?

Then tell us what a natural colour actually is instead of what its not.

[bluefin59]

It’ll you not to send me any messages ,what is wrong with you

[Dignity]

Ok, I'll bite, what is a natural colour, in 25 words or less. Any more and I'll hit the Ignore button.

[chris69]

So the parameters such as moon and tide have changed slightly, but I'm still willing to test the system if I can get an actual recommendation. The waters still filthy and the hyacinth is still everywhere.

Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

Righto Ronnie, lets test the system
Barra opener is a week away. The Fitzroy is currently filthy with water hyacinth everywhere having washed down from the freshwater reaches. We'll be three days after the moon with the low at Port Alma at 18:09, or about 20:33 at the barrage. Alternatively, if we’re stuck at work and have to wait until Saturday, we’ll be on the neaps with low at Port Alma at 11:22, or at the barrage at 13:31.

Let’s say I’m an average punter with a small tinny, an electric and a reasonable side scan sonar. I’ve got a mix of hard bodies, vibes and soft plastics and a cast net.

So, where do I go, and what do I do?

Cheers

He's got us all blocked he did not bite to my comments he's a damaged individual with a agenda to make himself a name in his own reality , the other forum did not tolerate him as a lot don't here its only a matter of time before he were's his welcome out here for good ,he can post all the dribble here he wants but he's got to expect to be pulled up when someone thinks he's wrong and can prove it, he's turned ausfish into a dictatorship a bit like Putton its his way or the highway.

[CT]

He's got us all blocked he did not bite to my comments he's a damaged individual with a agenda to make himself a name in his own reality , the other forum did not tolerate him as a lot don't here its only a matter of time before he were's his welcome out here for good ,he can post all the dribble here he wants but he's got to expect to be pulled up when someone thinks he's wrong and can prove it, he's turned ausfish into a dictatorship a bit like Putton its his way or the highway.

Yep I think you've nailed it.

[gazza2006au]

Re "natural colours" way back in the heady days of the jigging craze (70s) I used to make my own jigs, my mate could get a supply of stainless flat bar, about 20mm X 6mm (1"X1/4") we cut them at various lengths and drilled a hole in each end, a split ring in each hole, and a treble on one, instant practically free jig (we even tied hooks to the top ring for jigging snaggy reef, which was unheard of back then) if we had time we painted the jigs all sorts of colours, but quickly realised that unpainted, dull stainless outfished every other colour by a long way, why? Don't really know, but maybe it mimicked a "natural" shiny fish colour? maybe it just stood out in 25m of water? but plain old dull stainless was the go to lure by a long shot.

Thats interesting Noel maybe the SS lure mimicked a beatin up bait fish, as we all know a fresh fish is bright and silver, a shaggy fish looking under the weather looks like a dull silver losing scales etc..

Might be something to it

[Ronje1]

You might find some value in this.

This guy is an optometrist and a fishing tragic in the US. He wrote this book in 1999.

He did a lot of work on how colours change in water. Seems to address and give weight to what Noelm has been saying.

IMG_20210209_0002.jpg

[Noelm]

Just to describe how my line colour tests were done, I got as many different coloured lines in 15kg that I could find, clear, blue, red, fluorocarbon, yellow, orange, as many different colours as I could "scab" then I took them all snorkeling, most at around 1m deep still looked OK, at around 4m things changed dramatically, it was hard for my human eyes to distinguish the colours, but all lines were clearly visible, including the fluorocarbon "invisible" line. Next up was some scuba diving at greater depths, by around 7-8m everything was just a dark stripe in the water, they all looked exactly the same, all a kind of grey shades visible stripe. All that said, even after my tests, I still only use blue line for game fishing, clear or green line for the beach, and green or blue for Snapper, it's just a confidence thing I guess. Anyone who has done any deeper snorkeling or scuba will know everything just looks grey/blue, the rocks, fish everything once you go deeper than a few metres, use a torch, and the colours come back, just like above the surface, but I don't think many fish have torches, but it seems somehow obvious that their eyes are way different to ours.

[Noelm]

Just a note, the depths I stated are only approximate, I did not use a depth gauge, so please don't tell me the depth ranges are not spot on.