Etec G2

[TheRealPoMo]

Gazza, I get sort of where you are coming from. Thing is, neither modern 2 or 4 stroke should be rebuilt in your backyard as in both cases, manufacturers did not give a rats about that. Pretty sure Rolls Royce did similar with their Trent series Turbofans. "Oh hang on...what if Gazza wants to rebuild one in his shed ...."
4 strokes have more moving parts....2 stroke DI has more tech to make it work.
I'd go e-tec just because when I was an engineering student a long time ago, 2 stroke DI was a pipe dream, so I'd get a buzz out of having an actual working example.
Actually the turbofan has me thinking....gas turbine.....Yeah......
Is that 1 stroke?


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[Andy56]

Gazza, mate, I'll screen shot the manual on an intel i7 microprocessor for you. Current ones are a million times more complex than a simple etec module. Maybe 200-1000 interupts, 64bit bus, read sensor inputs., sundry outputs (20-50) All potentially firing at 1-4Ghz. and memory modules running at 3Ghz. ( in mechanical speak, 10,000,000rpm.) Just in case your flipping out, relatively speaking etecs are simple. The complexity was in the design stage with every parameter optimised and finely tuned. Bore size, block angles, very specific tube lengths and tuned induction, injector specs, fuel flow control, oil flow control , quality of materials etc etc. I dont subscribe to the theory that everything is so stressed to its very limit. The limits are stretched because of new/better materials and the limits are better understood. There is still a high level of tolerance in the design.
After that its just lego on the production line. SAME as any 4 stroke. Same as any microprocessor now, i just buy a motherboard, as you should know, they are a dime a dozen which really masks its complexity. No engineer designs these to come apart, its designed to click together, layer upon layer

Now as you have experienced, etecs are designed to go together in a particular way on a production line, with special tools no doubt. Does this mean that the hobbyist or a tinkerer can put them together or repair? Shit NO! A manual isnt enough, you need specific training. I am sure some parts are just not designed to be easily pulled apart once in situ. You call that complex, I call that normal these days. Think headlight assemblies, taillamp assemblies. High performance comes at a cost, i dont think the manufactures want you to have it for nothing but for a price you get one hell of an engine.

[scottar]

I call that normal these days.

Absolutely. Modern manufacturing techniques have enabled us to produce products that push the envelope of product performance and also allow it to be done in such a way that costs can be kept reasonable (to a point). The downside of course is that they are not built like a 1960's Kingswood where every part is easily removable. Is the E-Tec programming complex - not overly for me but I come from a technical employment background. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I look at an E-Tec and see a basic two stroke engine with an electronic control system that I more or less understand. On the other hand, I look at a modern four stroke engine as a whole lot of extra mechanical goings on that I only have a basic idea of what they do because I have never really got in and played with one. Complexity to an individual is determined by their familiarity.

[gazza2006au]

Andy i have all the tools mate that i have gathered over the many years of rebuilding engines i have a whole bunch of specialty tools not specific to evinrudes etec but to engines in general there is nothing to particalarly out of the ordinary unless its a special one off tool designed for that model which would only be a flywheel lift ring

I have 3 stages of torque wrenches, pulleys, pullers, presses, a huge asortment of sockets imperial, metric,specialised hex socket sets, compression tools, leak down testers, asortment of hand,electric,pnumatic impact wrenches, degree wheels, hoist,

I have the lot mate so please dont judge a back yarder as being less advanced than a professional the readon i dont have a professional degree is because i was never able to goto tafe to obtain one

My tool list goes far beyond the list mentioned i just cant name it all off the top of my head

[Andy56]

Andy i have all the tools mate that i have gathered over the many years of rebuilding engines i have a whole bunch of specialty tools not specific to evinrudes etec but to engines in general there is nothing to particalarly out of the ordinary unless its a special one off tool designed for that model which would only be a flywheel lift ring

I have 3 stages of torque wrenches, pulleys, pullers, presses, a huge asortment of sockets imperial, metric,specialised hex socket sets, compression tools, leak down testers, asortment of hand,electric,pnumatic impact wrenches, degree wheels, hoist,

I have the lot mate so please dont judge a back yarder as being less advanced than a professional the readon i dont have a professional degree is because i was never able to goto tafe to obtain one

My tool list goes far beyond the list mentioned i just cant name it all off the top of my head

Gazza, you missed the point. I am not questioning your accumulated knowledge. I come from an electronics background. I also happen to be well read in most things. I appreciate good engineering. I also know my limitations. You dont have an electronics background so programming or reading a list of sensors and parameters is foreign to you. For us in the computer industries, its second nature. I recon i could figure out the etec list, however, i wouldnt be game to try most mechanical fixes. The days somebody like you can get away with it are OVER. Its not a reflection on you. Smarter people than you or I have designed and put these things together. It takes a hell of a lot more than a spanner or multimeter to get them going well. SURELY you have learnt that lesson by now.



I know the mentality of " you said it cant be done, I'll prove it to you" . You want to waste the rest of your life reinventing the wheel, be my guest. hahahahaha. I personally can think of better things to do. LIKE FISHING

[blacklab]

Gazza, you missed the point. I am not questioning your accumulated knowledge. I come from an electronics background. I also happen to be well read in most things. I appreciate good engineering. I also know my limitations. You dont have an electronics background so programming or reading a list of sensors and parameters is foreign to you. For us in the computer industries, its second nature. I recon i could figure out the etec list, however, i wouldnt be game to try most mechanical fixes. The days somebody like you can get away with it are OVER. Its not a reflection on you. Smarter people than you or I have designed and put these things together. It takes a hell of a lot more than a spanner or multimeter to get them going well. SURELY you have learnt that lesson by now.



I know the mentality of " you said it cant be done, I'll prove it to you" . You want to waste the rest of your life reinventing the wheel, be my guest. hahahahaha. I personally can think of better things to do. LIKE FISHING

I believe you are correct with regards to the Etec engine Andy,
But that's where my agreeing with the above ends. I would not attempt to tackle a repair on an Etec, but I would competantly tackle any other two stroke or modern 4 stroke outboard engine on the market today.
My son is workshop foreman at a major Holden dealership, 20 years of tecnical training behind him, all done seemingly now with electronic testing devices to diagnose faults, Interestingly, very recently, could not time a 4 stroke basic British motorcyle engine, I had to walk him thru it,, that's basic mechanics. While I agree, there is more technology being used in engines now days, BUT, it's all very well and fine to hook a computer up to an engine and diagnose the issue, it is a completely different story to actually repair the thing. Engines are still basically, the same animal, just fruits and tricks added to them to improve efficiency, but at the end of the day, a combustible engine is still a combustable engine, no matter what you bolt on to it.
There will always be back Yarder's working on combustible engines till the dawn of time, and nothing has changed to alter that.

Col

[Andy56]

I believe you are correct with regards to the Etec engine Andy,
But that's where my agreeing with the above ends. I would not attempt to tackle a repair on an Etec, but I would competantly tackle any other two stroke or modern 4 stroke outboard engine on the market today.
My son is workshop foreman at a major Holden dealership, 20 years of tecnical training behind him, all done seemingly now with electronic testing devices to diagnose faults, Interestingly, very recently, could not time a 4 stroke basic British motorcyle engine, I had to walk him thru it,, that's basic mechanics. While I agree, there is more technology being used in engines now days, BUT, it's all very well and fine to hook a computer up to an engine and diagnose the issue, it is a completely different story to actually repair the thing. Engines are still basically, the same animal, just fruits and tricks added to them to improve efficiency, but at the end of the day, a combustible engine is still a combustable engine, no matter what you bolt on to it.
There will always be back Yarder's working on combustible engines till the dawn of time, and nothing has changed to alter that.

Col

there will always be some one who will graze their knuckles, sure, i get it. I agree the engines are still the same basic things but only in the class room. Out in the real world they are far trickier beasts to tame. A qualified mechanic having done the training and some experience with factory backup will always trump the backyard. The more technology, the further from the backyard it becomes.
I leave you with this thought. If you extrapolate what we have experienced over the last 50yrs, motors will one day be sealed throw away units. Cant get much simpler than that. Electric motors are pretty much at that stage now.

[blacklab]

I here you Andy, I think we are a long way from that myself.
Look, I became a qualified marine mechanic in 1979, left the trade and never worked in that industry again. Nothing has really changed in that 40 years, not to any great extent anyhow, they all still basically combustable engines, with some high tec computer componants attached, that's all, fundamentally, nothing has changed. With mapping and electronic ignitions, improvements have definitely been made, But I say again, there fundamentally still a combustable engine, of 100 year old plus heritage, we haven't really advanced a hell of a lot considering the time frame.
Full electrical motors should they come in will make what we call mechanics redundant, with computor technicians in white coats taking over and throw away as you say. but until that day, the humble mechanic, not the keyboard computer nerd, will be needed to keep everyone's boats serviced and on the water........I consider myself a back yarder, never been trained in electronics and new tech that appears on these new outboards, but I would not hesitate in pulling down any of the current day 4 strokes should the need arise, Etec's, NO............

Col


just my view

[stevej]

Andy plenty of people play with ecus it isn't as hard as you say
my 60 year old car has fully programable ignition and fuel injection which was added last year, it all just bolted on self diagnosed and ran.

what is hard is the level of technology etecs have had to employ to keep their emissions ratings and when something beaks combined with their lower resale value its uneconomical to repair them

there are many more four strokes in use as car engines and carbed two strokes in motorbikes for people to understand them and have a tinker or attempt to repair

[scottar]

The only thing that stops back yarders working on ECU controlled motors is the manufacturer not making the programming software or hardware available to the general public. Frequent the Evinrude Owners group or specialist forums like LCOOL ( for Landcruisers) and you figure out pretty quick that there are some seriously clued up guys out there who are way out in front of your average dealer tech when it comes to ECU diagnostics and who don't mind sharing their wealth of knowledge on line. Evinrude E-Tec up until the release of the G2, didn't need any specialist hardware for the PC interface - I made my own from parts on E-Bay, and if you looked long enough, the software wasn't too hard to find. It is also available through Evinrude dealers. The G2 requires some hardware and a different software version apparently but I don't own one and haven't looked into it. I did look into Software availability for Mercury when the new 200 came out - no dice and I suspect Yamaha and Suzuki would be similar. Between the information on line, the workshop manual which is written so a first year apprentice can do most things and the readily available software, the G1's at least aren't that difficult to wrap your head around. Plenty of back yard guys do their own mechanicals - right through to full rebuilds.

[Paul071978]

Most new motors are basically a bunch of components that are no longer disassembled and refurbished with individual parts not available so whole assemblies are swapped out instead. Mostly due to high labor costs so cheaper that way

[gazza2006au]

I think your on to it Paul these days labor is so expensive its just not worth repairing blown powerheads not for a Evinrude dealer plus if a block ruins the cylinder sleeve these are only available aftermarket which Evinrude will not use the only use genuine parts on rebuilds which combined with labor makes the repair bill sky rocket

But for back yard rebuilders we can look for old stock, surplus parts and the cheapest prices internationally so it can be well worth it to repair

The etec i had was very basic as mechanically and there was not much variance from other 2 stroke outboards i have rebuilt they all have the same princibles although the oil injection is a litte more complicated there was not much to it

The basic powerhead contained all normal 2 stroke engine componants, crank, rods,pistons,rings, bearings etc... the only tricky thing doing the etec was aligning the two piece conrods u have to carry out the finger nail scratch test to make sure the cap is properly aligned but this is a peice of piss to do

What complicates the etec is the advancements on the computer being all pc controlled like u could prime the oil injection via a computer which is really shazzy high tech stuff and if there were any air bubbles in the line u could reprime via pc the oil flow

But just all the settings and adjustments had me lost