bilge set up

[blacklab]

Ok, Sorry in advance, But another set up question.
Fuel line routing and fuel water filter all organised, SO, I need to set up the Bilge area properly.
I'm hearing mixed answers for auto Bilge pump or manual, so I'd like opinions on both ?
Any preferable brands, ie Rule, or are they much of a muchness now ?

My bilge area was suppose to have a kill tank in front of it, but it came back with a void area under the floor, and the Fibre Glasser saying there was no room for either storage or a kill tank,,,, there would have been if he had moved the tank forward 400mm like I asked...
Anyhow, the total area in length is at least 900 long ( half that under the floor) open to the bilge area and about 500 wide, what size Bilge pump would you recommend ? and as mentioned, manual versus auto ?.
I was almost considering, where the floor finishes and leaves about 400 of open bilge area at the back, to actually glass in another type of bulk head with a removable bung, to enclose the bilge area a bit more, not sure, hard to explain without a photo I suppose...But effectively, there's about 500mm of void space under the floor where there is a bulk head at the end of where the tank finishes......
I want to set this up correctly, so any suggestions will be gratefully received.......

Col

[Noelm]

I am a pretty simple person and like a switch to turn the pump on if I want to, there is quite a few reasonable quality auto ones around, but personally, for a trailer boat, an on/off switch is about as easy as it gets, buy the biggest capacity, highest quality you can, and use hose that won't kink.

[ranmar850]

As to brands, Rule's name doesn't seem to be so good now. I still use them, have had no trouble, but others differ. Johnsons' new stuff looks good, some have replaceable cartridges. Auto or manual? I'd personally have both. And as big as you can fit. Sounds like you have plenty of space.Take one over the transom and 500 gph just won't cut it. Ok for getting rid of washdown water. I only have one, a Rule 1100gph with the integral switch, bought for compactness, as I am extremely limited for space between the back of the fuel tank and the transom, what with the bilge pump, dual port livebait pump mounted on the intake for the washdown, and a bloody great B175M as well. I'm even considering trying to mount a large one up a little from the lowest point--at least it will help with a large amount of water. These glass boats that just empty everything into the bilge are a worry, you only have one way of getting water out once you are on the water. Can't reach the drain bung over the transom, vee is too deep.

My previous, older boat had a Rule 2500gph manual pump, would certainly shift the water out of the void down the back. With manual, there is the risk of turning it on and leaving it on--did it a few times, you eventually will notice the sucking noises as the little water left splashes around, never burnt it out. But you can't do that forever. Automatics are necessary if you want to leave it unattended in the water, fit a changeover switch panel so you can run in manual. And mount the outlet up high, where you can see it pumping out and water won't be likely to flow back down. If it is a larger Rule, you will need that odd-size 1 1/8" outlet. I think Johnson are the same, some odd yank size.

[gazza2006au]

I think i remember reading the Rule pumps are designed so if they are ran dry they don't fail if i recall correctly they can run for six or seven hours dry, i would buy a Rule pump over any others just for this reason not every one checks there pumps regularly and u may need it one day

Ran a lot of boats are built like that with a bilge area i donno why as if u strike a rock only so much water can drain thru the stringer drain holes than out thru the bulk head at the bilge into the bilge area so the pump would be running dry a lot waiting for more water to drain into the bilge

my little boat has no bilge at all my entire floor is all glassed down there is a small drain area around 20x20cm that drops about 3cm with a floor bung to drain whatever goes on the floor

[scottar]

The johnson pumps are cheap. Ive replaced my bait pump cartridge twice in a few years. Last time I dismantled it to see why. Very basic seal set up. Rule you either seem to get a good one that goes forever or it fails under warranty. Personally I am not a fan of integrated switches - at least if an external switch fails you don't have to replace the whole thing. My thoughts - at least 1100 gph pump with an external float switch - wired for auto and manual. Rule would be my pick. Whatever you get make sure it is fused correctly or it will burn out if it clogs

[stevej]

I can’t find the page anymore but a 1000glph pump won’t keep up with a 20mm hole 50cm below water level

Length of tubing height etc reducing pump capacity considerably

I ran a 1000gph auto and a 2000 gph on a switch. And a manual double action hand pump for when things have really gone wrong or lose batteries

Can get flush mount with removable handle manual pumps


You can tell I really didn’t want to go for a swim
And considering the boat was worth 30odd k 400 in pumps and wiring isnt really overkill

[blacklab]

Great feedback Guys, Thank you.
So from what I'm gathering, these boating shops selling bilge kits with only 500 gph really wouldn't cut it then.
It sounds as though the bigger the better, and going even larger than an 1100 gph wouldn't hurt. As i said, I have a huge bilge area to consider,
Hence why I was considering halving it with the dummy bulk head Idea. I do like the idea of having one with an option for Auto or manual, I'm like Noel, I like to switch things on, BUT, I know there will be times where the boat may be in the water moored up for 2-4 days, so having that option of an auto setting would have an advantage.
At this stage, I'm collecting electrical componants, fitting where they are needed, but in all honesty, I will probably get someone in to actually do the wiring, as long as I get all the switch gear fitted etc, he will come in and finish off, I know my limitations and it would do my head in, so I want it done correctly.
Thanks guys, I'll follow your lead their Scott, and go Rule, I'll search for a decent size one.

Appreciated guys thanks.

Col

[stevej]

Any wiring joints that may be below the waterline use resin filled heat shrink from jaycar.

It’s not that much dearer

[Dignity]

Great feedback Guys, Thank you.
So from what I'm gathering, these boating shops selling bilge kits with only 500 gph really wouldn't cut it then.
It sounds as though the bigger the better, and going even larger than an 1100 gph wouldn't hurt. As i said, I have a huge bilge area to consider,
Hence why I was considering halving it with the dummy bulk head Idea. I do like the idea of having one with an option for Auto or manual, I'm like Noel, I like to switch things on, BUT, I know there will be times where the boat may be in the water moored up for 2-4 days, so having that option of an auto setting would have an advantage.
At this stage, I'm collecting electrical componants, fitting where they are needed, but in all honesty, I will probably get someone in to actually do the wiring, as long as I get all the switch gear fitted etc, he will come in and finish off, I know my limitations and it would do my head in, so I want it done correctly.
Thanks guys, I'll follow your lead their Scott, and go Rule, I'll search for a decent size one.

Appreciated guys thanks.

Col

Good stuff here but I'm thinking I wouldn't be paying full price for the work you were getting done. I guess the issue is did you actually put it down in writing and if not why didn't they get back to you if they struck problems.

[Noelm]

If you are leaving the boat in the water for a few days at a time, then an auto option will be nice, one thing to remember most are not self priming, they need to be in the water to pump, and the higher the outlet, the lower the output, by a big margin, they are a simple impellor setup, and only a small impellor at that, bits of fishing line, a few fish scales or the like will see them next to useless.

[scottar]

Any wiring joints that may be below the waterline use resin filled heat shrink from jaycar.

It’s not that much dearer

Shouldn't be any. All pumps I have ever seen have more than enough cable to get the join up out of any area where water will sit (unless of course you are filling up faster than the pump is pumping - and then it doesn't matter so much any more.) I would still use the resin filled heat shrink - I normally do a couple of layers and then secure the join up out of the bilge.

[scottar]

I can’t find the page anymore but a 1000glph pump won’t keep up with a 20mm hole 50cm below water level

Length of tubing height etc reducing pump capacity considerably

I ran a 1000gph auto and a 2000 gph on a switch. And a manual double action hand pump for when things have really gone wrong or lose batteries

Can get flush mount with removable handle manual pumps


You can tell I really didn’t want to go for a swim
And considering the boat was worth 30odd k 400 in pumps and wiring isnt really overkill

You will need to be a REALLY motivated person to make a manual pump of any value from my experience. Most of our tugs have either a manual bilge/fire pump or manual fire pump as a requirement. If it ever gets to that stage, go looking for a lifejacket before the handle for the pump

[scottar]

The size of the pump really depends on what you want it to cope with Col. If it's just to deal with spray coming over the side a 500gph is ample - it will empty the floor space under the false floor of a 4.5 in about 3 - 4 minutes ( I found this out a few times). If you want to keep up with a small leak or empty a bilge a bit quicker in a swamping situation, I would regard the 1000/1100 as a minimum. At a point though you reach a stage where no pump that can be fitted realistically in a trailerboat is going to cope. If you punch a decent sized hole in a boat at speed the water comes in scary quick - the floor space in the 4.5 would fill in about 45 seconds with both 1" bungs out sitting at the ramp. A mate had a through hull transducer pop out of the hull and then the tank failed - a 95mm hole. It filled a 450 litre void pretty much instantly - no pump would have coped. It was only that the hull had seperated chambers that the boat is still around.

[blacklab]

I think I'll go with the 1000-1100 gph, which realistically covers most basis, then the Epirb and inflatable jacket probably come into play after that.
Geeez, what a feeling that would be with the blokes thru hull tranny popping out, now that would be scary for sure.
I like the idea of a separate float switch, as you recommended. The option to switch to either manual or auto, when the boat is overnighting, or moored for a few days etc, So it's given me a clear way to go now and get it sorted and prepared.
It's good sometimes to get feedback, with a whole pile of fit out jobs ahead of me, sometimes the mind gets a bit blurry, so it great to get feedback.
Thanks guys

Col

[Out-Station]

Blacklab, i,ve got a rule ntegrated auto + manual in 1500 in the new boat. Just a tip, with the integrated auto type ones make sure you still wire the auto side through a switch so you can disable the auto as i have seen them where they run forever befor turning off (or not at all). I run a switch on both the manual side and auto side, give the manual side the odd run if i think about it through the day, turn the auto side on for overnight.