Coral Reef Fin Fish bag limit.

[baitable]

Quick thought: Ok you have your bag limit of 20 CRFF and they say hey, its ok for you to chase flame snapper and add to your bag.

I know if it were me i would probably catch quite a few other fish species (as by catch) in pursuit of adding flame snapper to my eskys. Now, again, using myself as an example- not all of those fish make it back down to live out their natural lives - barotrauma, sharks all add to the attrition rate.

I guess its a blanket rule from a management, training and implementation perspective.

I keep coming back to the fact: lets leave something for the next generation, if fisheries managements are wrong, the future stocks are protected. If fisheries management is right then future stocks are protected. Who loses out in this scenario - just you and I; thats a sacrifice i'm prepared to make right or wrong.

[Lovey80]

That certainly could be part of the reasoning. Bycatch.

Would you you also be happy with that methodology if you’re fishing in the river and have your bag of flat-head and now you can’t catch more than say 2 bream/whitting/Jew/tarwhine?

[samson]

the coral reef combined limit was brought in at the same time as the coral fin fish quota for commercials as far as what your saying combined limits are in place for sustainability and to combat black market rec fish,at present what your saying is what's the problem with is adding one specie to a limit if it's its reached and how does that effect the fishery.
Well to answer that simply it adds more weight for black market gain and if everybody did that it equates to a substantial amount of weight of fish off the biomass and considering there's millions of recs it will harm the fishery detrimentally.
At present a 20 fish combined limit of coral fin fish with a full crew of mates it's quite easy to take up to 500kg of fish and then add rocky reef fin fish totals to this then pelagic fish to a point where recs can legally take tonnes, if recs don't see a problem with this then I can only assume they have something financial too gain otherwise what do recreationals need with so much fish.
Hopefully soon boat limits are brought in like west aus or the fishery is doomed as the only guys at present copping it are the commercial guys which at present have been culled down to around 2500 on the east coast of Australia all fisheries combined compare that to a few million plus recs and endless amounts of latent effort and i see nothing good becoming of this fishery.

[back2boats]

Hopefully soon boat limits are brought in like west aus or the fishery is doomed as the only guys at present copping it are the commercial guys which at present have been culled down to around 2500 on the east coast of Australia all fisheries combined compare that to a few million plus recs and endless amounts of latent effort and i see nothing good becoming of this fishery.

A bit unfair to compare numbers without looking at typical catch. A commercial team on a boat with nets etc, will haul in way more tonnage of fish each day, compared to the average rec guys take for a whole year.

[Noelm]

Any coral reef fish netters?

[BigE]

the coral reef combined limit was brought in at the same time as the coral fin fish quota for commercials as far as what your saying combined limits are in place for sustainability and to combat black market rec fish,at present what your saying is what's the problem with is adding one specie to a limit if it's its reached and how does that effect the fishery.
Well to answer that simply it adds more weight for black market gain and if everybody did that it equates to a substantial amount of weight of fish off the biomass and considering there's millions of recs it will harm the fishery detrimentally.
At present a 20 fish combined limit of coral fin fish with a full crew of mates it's quite easy to take up to 500kg of fish and then add rocky reef fin fish totals to this then pelagic fish to a point where recs can legally take tonnes, if recs don't see a problem with this then I can only assume they have something financial too gain otherwise what do recreationals need with so much fish.
Hopefully soon boat limits are brought in like west aus or the fishery is doomed as the only guys at present copping it are the commercial guys which at present have been culled down to around 2500 on the east coast of Australia all fisheries combined compare that to a few million plus recs and endless amounts of latent effort and i see nothing good becoming of this fishery.

Really??? I didn't catch 500kg on any trip as a rec last year ...... maybe i'm in the minority, can the majority of rec's who 500kg plus last year on a trip put their hand up.
Hell did anyone get 500kg on any 2 trips last year ?? ( there would be some very happy fisho's if so )


I call BS on the 500kg and rec's take tonnes.

BigE

[samson]

I didn't say all recs do big e but iknow plenty that do and they do it coming way under their limit especially when catching bass grouper and blue eye deep dropping and only with ten or fifteen fish averaging 40 plus kg.
You obviously don't go up north chasing coral reef fin fish much because most guys I know that fish out of 1770 and beyond multiple times a year rarely come home with less than 300kg of mixed reef and that doesn't include the multiple sharkings of fish that don't make to the boat which has a impact on the fishery also,
You only have to fish out of these waters to see the amount of boats over 7 meters with large eskies lined up for a kilometer down the street during good weather fishing well out 100 plus km to realise how much impact it has and that's only in this one area.
Or scroll through some of bananas reports for this area there are many out there taking massive loads weather you like to to believe it or not and that doesn't include the multide of recs that get caught through this area in green zones every year.
All I can say I'm glad not all recs have your kill attitude because with 700000 registered rec boats in qld alone not including crew if all caught even remotely close to their limit there would be nothing left and no fishery for anybody but if you don't care thats fine because there are plenty that do.
On another note if what you say is correct and nobody catches their limit to these extremes then why not reduce the limits as they are in excess of what's needed so one day it may be possible to have such a fishery as it once was, before it's too late just food for thought,or we could just leave it and let fisherman and technology exploit a fishery to a point of no return.

[scottar]

Not all of those registered boats fish for starters and then a whole heap of those that do wouldn't be capable of carrying 500 kilos in total let alone only in fish. I don't disagree with the bag limits but if you going to argue pro against amatuer at least be realistic about the numbers you use. Deep dropping like bannana isn't really targeting CRFF species either.

[samson]

Didn’t say everyone can hold these quantities I said the bag limit allows it and people do,as far as banana and others like him he mostly always targeted shallow water stuff and got theses numbers and like him and others have started to work deeper and unless you don’t know your species most of these deep species are coral reef fin fish thus part of your
limit.
This topic has nothing to do with rec verse pro this has to do with excess latent effort and overly generous bag limits that allow black marketing to thrive and if blokes can’t see that there’s nothing I can say or do that will change that.
All I know is it’s a great thing to be a recreational fisherman right now they are the equivalent to the NRA of America with so much political power ,it’s incredible I wonder how far fisheries will let the fishery suffer so there jobs stay safe unlike one of the last election changes where thousands of officers lost their jobs, I can’t see them letting that happen again.

[Lovey80]

Latent effort in the Pro fishing industry?

[scottar]

Maybe so but you are cherry picking data and using statisical numbers to support your argument that in no way come even close to the real situation. Like gun laws, bag limits only apply to honest citizens so the black market will exist regatdless of whatever limits are in place.

[samson]

Latent effort for commercials was taken away years ago for commercials you either lost your licence or you missed out on quota and couldn't catch coral reef fin fish.
The only unknown data in fishing in Australia is recreationals catch, every kg down to the gram is accounted for in the coral reef fishery for commercials, so the only way to have any control is through bag limits which are outdated and overly generous for a fishery with new latent effort being born every day.
Bag limits are the only way to make it unviable for recreationals to minimize profits you make profits less than costs you put a dint in black marketing simple,considering most commercials make a living on less than a recreational limit 90% of trips it just tells you that something is wrong with the excess fish allowed to be taken by excessive bag limits, I'll use yellowfin tuna as a example in Qld state fishery, yellowfin tuna one of the most popular sishimi fish out there have no rec limit at all yet commercials can only take 2 fish a trip whether that's one day or one week at sea, in this day and age you tell me why a rec would need no limits on a fish that obviously is under threat from multiple sectors.

[scottar]

The only reason there would be no rec bag limit is that the rec take is not deemed significant - they are hardly going to take more than they can eat fresh and certainly won't be exporting. By contrast it is known that the longline industry on the east coast pretty much imploded due to overfishing - in areas that see little to no recreational pressure and certainly none from sub 10 metre vessels. Might just be the reasoning behind YFT. Unfortunately there will always be elements in both camps that can be used as justification by the other side for limitations if data is cherry picked. The worst part of it all is that if either side eventually gets their way the bloody greenies are one step closer to killing fishing period.

[Lovey80]

Latent Effort for Recreational's is a complete red herring. Who cares what 99% of the 700,000 oat owners "could" catch if they chose to. The only fact that is relevant is what they do catch. I'm not arguing here nor there on what their numbers actually are and neither should anyone else because no one knows including fisheries.

As for YFT. For recreational the are pretty much a non-event. Very few target them and they are mostly by-catch for other species. You would be lucky most days to see more than one per boat actually kept even if they are on.

[samson]

The problem with latent effort is it is a concern for fisheries or it should be as the bag limits have stayed the same the boats and fisherman with better skills have in increased everywhere and gone are the days that 10% catch most fish that's a crock the skill levels are right up there now for most people and latent effort was and still is getting wiped out in all commercial sectors so why not recs I know it's not because they don't catch fish that's for sure.
As far as the yellow fin you obviously don't see the slaughter I do since all these fishing shows and trolling combo deals started 15 to 20 years back the pelagic trolling areas are car parks without a commercial in sight,I witness boat loads of juvenile yellows getting caught up to 15 kg in a size that arent even seen out in commonwealth waters where long liners work and the numbers now are stuffed on the inshore grounds where there getting wiped before breeding size.
The reasoning behind there being no limit on yellows was it was gifted by the state fishery to appease the commonwealth goverment at the same time putting strict limits on commercials the same was done with blue fin ,long tail and striped tuna at the time nobody ate raw fish and commercials good barely give it away to Australian public,they refused red meat fish but now it's becoming one of the most sort after the rules need to change.