Convince me of the benefits of a 1kw transducer

[NAGG]

Hi All

I'm in the middle of installing the 2nd HDS12 in my 615 Barcrusher WR - Currently unit 1 is running a total scan transducer & while the 2nd unit from my old Seajay has 3D structure scan - I'm thinking of forgoing the 3D structure & going for a better traditional transducer .
So aside from the likes of the HST-DFSBL - I'm thinking of going the Airmar TM260 ..... & while I'm not going to be dropping baits in 200 or 300M - I may end up chasing Tuna out wide .
This is a big investment ..... so are there other real world advantages slinging this bad boy off the transom ?

I feel that the total scan tranny covers me for the shallow / inshore water stuff ..... But just maybe there is something to gain from going with the TM260 when running at speed in 60-100M of water

Interested to hear your opinions & experiences

Chris

[swof63]

Didn’t have the TM260 but had the M260 in-hull on my furuno 585. Demon transducer stable image at 30kts offshore ( that may have been the in-hull thing ) really good in deep water - never fished over 150 but clear till then. Very narrow beam though almost useless in shallow (20-30m) water - beam was so tight. Great bonus though, fish caught in shallow water came up already cooked - gotta luv 1kw!!!!


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[scottar]

Personally I would be thinking more along the lines of a stainless tilted element mounted into the ballast tube if it's deep enough. I have had reports from owners of what I consider to be lesser performing (when it comes to offshore work) units that the 1Kw transducers do give a much better result. The bigger transom mounts are typically a bit harder to get a great picture out of at speed. Also bare in mind the large reduction in cone angle. Complaints of a lack of "arches" are reasonably common with these transducers when compared to a 600 watt unit in shallow to medium depths - basically the user is forced to use 50KHz to get any sort of coverage. Personally for anything sub 150 meters I wouldn't bother but I do run a Furuno

[swof63]

Sorry just re-read. I think the issue with 100m at speed is less 1kw than transom mount. Transom mount is subject to turbulence and placement so the depth is less an issue than the mounting. 1kw at trolling speed a doddle at those depths, in fact 600w also fine at 6kts. Once planing things get harder.
The BC has no strakes so hopefully the transom Mount gives you clean images. My current boat has a 600w through hull on a Garmin 1222 and is crystal clear at 30kts offshore in 70m. Previous boats have had 600w transom mounts that can’t keep clear at 10kts in 70m.


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[scottar]

Sorry just re-read. I think the issue with 100m at speed is less 1kw than transom mount. Transom mount is subject to turbulence and placement so the depth is less an issue than the mounting. 1kw at trolling speed a doddle at those depths, in fact 600w also fine at 6kts. Once planing things get harder.
The BC has no strakes so hopefully the transom Mount gives you clean images. My current boat has a 600w through hull on a Garmin 1222 and is crystal clear at 30kts offshore in 70m. Previous boats have had 600w transom mounts that can’t keep clear at 10kts in 70m.


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Transom mounts can suffer from two different issues when it comes to working at speed- turbulence and propeller noise - neither of which will necessarily be fixed and indeed can be worse with the 1Kw units. My Furuno with a 600 watt bronze through hull running at 90% power will quite happily give a perfect picture and seeing fish running at speed in at least 150 metres (the deepest it's been thus far). This comes down to good clean water flow (even though it's mounted in the first strake) and sufficient distance between it and the prop to allow running gains high enough to see fish at depth but not pick up prop noise. It's not uncommon to have a sounder that works perfectly in shallow water with no picture break up but is pretty much unusable at anything over idle once you start to get a bit of distance between you and the bottom with the screen simply filling with clutter the moment any sort of revs are applied. I've seen this even with shoot thru hull installations - that have then worked perfectly once the transducer was moved forward in the hull. I have one mate with a V17C that the only place we have ever been able to get really good sounder performance (without big holes) is with the transducer in a wetbox under the bunk in the rear corner of the half cab. It works awesome unless you are turning in the wrong direction and thus taking water away from it which is always the catch - finding the balance between distance from the props and coming out of the water

[NAGG]

Thanks guys - it's been interesting reading the comments .
With regards to interference etc ...... isn't it the case with all transducers ? - that is incorrect mounting position ( too high , too low , turbulence from strakes , too close to the motor or how you run the cable ..... all come into play with how well a sounder reads .
I would imagine that this would be no different with any transom mounted transducer & not just associated with a big 1kw unit.

I know I will have a reasonable distance from the motor ...... I would have liked more but the trim tabs are in the way. I'm certainly not going to have turbulence from strakes so that really leaves transducer height & angle . It will be in the opposite position to the total scan transducer which reads well at all speed.

Chris

[Goffiller]

Hi Chris, I am running a 1kw M260 (in hull) with my lowrance HDS unit and also have a 600w P66 (transom mount) on my other lowrance HDS unit. To be honest I don't notice any notable difference in clarity or marking fish in water up to 100m. If that's as far as you are going then I couldn't justify the cost personally. However in 200-400m it makes all the difference as the 600w will pick up the bottom on but I find wont show fish as its past it useful depth.

I know every boat is different but I don't find any difference in the clarity when running at speed either.

Cheers

Rob

[Crunchy]

Isn't the HDS12 a 500W output unit? Although people do report getting better results from a 1KW tranny on a 500-600W head unit due to improved sensitivity of the more expensive transducers, you won't be able to utilise a 1KW tranny to its full potential I would have thought?

[ranmar850]

I think if you are interested in gaining a benefit from anything offshore trolling you need a wide beam angle, period--its a big ocean, very easy to steam right past something in midwater. Thats' my main interest in the 3D setup I am installing. You are really talking about two separate applications, aren't you? Marking bottom fish is very different to midwater or subsurface. And note that running 1kw in a wetbox won't give you the power of mounting a 1kw on the transom--you just can't dismiss the losses you get having to send and receive that signal through 1/2 to 3/4" of fibreglass. You will get more clarity, and the losses incurred may still see you getting a good return in your choice of depth---acceptable loss. There is a very good interactive tool on the Simrad site ( exactly the same as used to be on the Lowrance site) just click under the big green arrow and a whole chart of transducers pops up--you select one, and you can move a slider to see what your cone width is at different depths http://transducerguide.simrad-yachting.com/

[brett62]

NAGG I have been going through the same as you with going to a 1 kw. Upgrading the electronics on the boat and looked at all the pros and cons and have come up with installing a 1 kw SS175-HW-20 Degree offset thu hull and at this stage connected to a Simrad EVO 3. From what I have read some say they give a better reading under speed and better definition. As sottar has said, placement is the main issue for performance and he should know as this was his bread and butter. I worked on the theory if I want to shoot deep I can and I will still have a 83/200 transducer transom mounted. They are a lot of money but I haven't heard anyone say there standard transducer performed the same or better, would like to hear if someone can give first hand experience with that. Also need to make sure the head unit can drive the transducer.

[Crunchy]

NAGG I have been going through the same as you with going to a 1 kw. Upgrading the electronics on the boat and looked at all the pros and cons and have come up with installing a 1 kw SS175-HW-20 Degree offset thu hull and at this stage connected to a Simrad EVO 3. From what I have read some say they give a better reading under speed and better definition. As sottar has said, placement is the main issue for performance and he should know as this was his bread and butter. I worked on the theory if I want to shoot deep I can and I will still have a 83/200 transducer transom mounted. They are a lot of money but I haven't heard anyone say there standard transducer performed the same or better, would like to hear if someone can give first hand experience with that. Also need to make sure the head unit can drive the transducer.

I'm going the SS175HW too, never come up on special do they! If you spot a good deal let me know and I will do likewise, but thinking of just biting the bullet now as been putting it off too long.

Nagg - as Brett said these tranny's are proving very popular and made for tin boats so well worth considering.

[scottar]

Thanks guys - it's been interesting reading the comments .
With regards to interference etc ...... isn't it the case with all transducers ? - that is incorrect mounting position ( too high , too low , turbulence from strakes , too close to the motor or how you run the cable ..... all come into play with how well a sounder reads .
I would imagine that this would be no different with any transom mounted transducer & not just associated with a big 1kw unit.

I know I will have a reasonable distance from the motor ...... I would have liked more but the trim tabs are in the way. I'm certainly not going to have turbulence from strakes so that really leaves transducer height & angle . It will be in the opposite position to the total scan transducer which reads well at all speed.

Chris

Absolutely Chris - the point I was trying to get across though is that due to the physical size of the 1Kw transom mount it can be considerably more difficult trying to find enough good real estate on a transom. That coupled with the cost, your stated scope of operation and the likelihood of still having noise issues at speed regardless of the quality of water flow - personally I wouldn't (and haven't) bother. If you are looking at deeper work (150 - 200 plus) and the tilted element options either don't fit ( or you simply don't want big holes in your new rig) then go for it.

[Getout]

I have just installed a couple of Raymarine Axiom 9s in my 625 Outsider. Cut a 100 mm hole in the sump to fit a 1 kw transducer (medium Chirp). Haven’t tried it yet, but the Axioms seem brilliant!

[Mr__Bean]

I kept the Structurescan and 3d and mounted a Hybrid Dual Image HDI 50/200 455/800.

I don’t fish over a 100 metres and I followed this recommendation when I was enquiringly similar:

Regarding transducer selection and your depth range both are suitable, and the difference on them is a matter of opinion. The 83/200 Variety Looks at a lot more bottom with its elements 83 kHz with 52° beam width, 200 kHz with 22° beam width compared to the 50/200 that's elements are 50 kHz with 29° beam width 200 kHz with 12° beam width. From this you will see that the 50/200 variety is looking at less bottom/water meaning it can penetrate better, and you can be assured that what you are seeing is below the boat, not much much wider, however this can be both a good and a bad thing. By looking at less 'water' there is also less chance for interference and brings better clarity.

http://rowlandsmarine.co.uk/lowrance...00-455-800khz/

[Micadogs]

Like Mr Bean, I have also gone with a HDI 50/200/455/800 to complement the Totalscan since Lowrance released the Fish Reveal update for Gen 3.

I was looking at the TM260 also. My research led me to the HDI tx and was 1/4 the cost and for my application 60m up to 100 metres offshore, the TM260 wasnt going to give me 4x the perfornance of the HDI using fish reveal update.

I also have a P79 installed in hull for depth reading at any speed in any condition. Picture is actually pretty good but can't use it for fish reveal

Cheers Adam