Combo set ups.

[barwon jewel]

Hi all,

I'm wondering what GPS sounder set ups everyone is using around the 5k-6k mark. I have a new boat that I am setting up and the budget is a bit tight. I have a 2006 5.5 Joshua with a LCX112c with LBS1 broadband and a Humming bird 9 series SI. Both have their standard transducers and are used mainly for river fishing and a bit offshore to 70 m. I am happy with this set up ...be it old.

I have a 6.85 Noble with a HDS 10 GEN2 with standard 200/50 transducer which is not to bad.

Seeing the Raymarine,Simrad..and Garmin sounders not to mention the Carbon , I'm getting a bit confused.

I like the 7412svx with the forward scan, structure and 3 D package including 2 transducers for 5.5k....but I am worried that it is only touch screen.

I will also be fishing the shelf ...500m so I am wondering what are peoples thoughts on the combos.

Cheers

[chocolatemoose]

Howdy mate.

All kinds of crazy options out there atm for sure!. a lot of pros and cons and price points etc.

So first question, do you want this system to interchange with your noble and joshua or just staying on the one boat?



With waiting for that, lets look at whats available in that 9-12" range

MFDs
Garmin 1022xs
Garmin 1222xs
Garmin 7410xsv
Garmin 7412xsv

Simrad NSS12evo3
Simrad Nss9 evo3

Lowrance HDS9 Carbon
Lowrance HDS12 Carbon

Raymarine Axiom 9rv
Raymarine Axiom12RV
Raymarine Axiom Pro 9rvx
Raymarine Axiom PRO 12rvx

Humminbird Solix10si
Humminbird Solix 12si

So.... Some of those MFDs have the advantage of using manufactures own transducers and after market Airmar transducers.. this opens them up to both cost effect shallow water solutions and then high performance or deep water transducers. For example the Garmin GT transducers such as a GT51TM medium band CHIRP with Side and DOWNVU as well as an AIRMAR B175HW transducer would offer very good shallow water performance up to the 200m mark, with the medium band 600w GARMIN GT transducer offering good mid water level, and the additional side and down VU.

That same example could be used with the Raymarine Axiom PRO rvx with the RV-100 3d/side/down/high wide transducer and then an Airmar 175hw transducer. Or the Lowrance HDS/Simrad NSS with aTOTAL SCAN transducer featuring a wide beam 60o 83 (medium) chirp frequency and high 200khz frequency + Structure scan and down scan.

Those MFDS all offer a crazy amount of additional stuff, all done rather well. Autopilot radar engine interfacing video imput etc.

The odd one out there is the Humminbird Solix range, which itself has a rather unique position. its MEGA imaging SI transducer allows for a user modulated CHIRP frequencies and MEGAHERTZ range side and down imaging, when it comes to factory built shallow water performance the Humminbird mega imaging is on another plannet. However to run additional airmar transducers an exernal sonar computer would be required, the S3000 for example. this in itself offers pros and cons.. .external sonar computers do often offer better sonar results.

So the brands on paper offer pretty much the same stuff, with a few benifits here and there. so we need to go down a layer to see which onion is right.

The big ticket item i like to enphasise to people is Usability.... if a system is too hard to operate for somebody, it really doesnt matter how good the system would be or how well it performs.
All brands are a lot better than they used to be at this . most because they saw the light with the consumer electronic market with the likes of phones and tablets and emulated a lot of it. home screens, app like icons etc. Raymarines new Axiom generation itself is built in an android platform even which does lead it to be a very stable user interface

The next thing to consider would be build quality
None of these systems are cheap and nobody would really enjoy having to replace owing to it falling apart within a few years. that iphone mentallity doesnt fly too well with marine electronics. Build quality is pretty important as a result. Simrad/HDS do come towards the lower end of this, "however this is also reflected in its price" Garmin and Humminbird are rather good. Raymarines Axiom Pro is quite high up there. Humminbrids Solix range has prob the lowest end screen on the market. with the Simrad/Lowrance/Axiom Pro IPS screens being the best.

Touch vs buttons is another interesting one

Touch is here to stay and wont go away with most brands adopting it as a standard on their higher end systems .though "hybrid" systems are still around and a good option "touch is handy for mapping, renaming etc" buttons are handy for on water adjustments. with the exception of the 74XX series from garmin and standard raymarine Axiom range they are all Hybrid systems

Last thing would be then Budget.. to get the most rounded out system for you, under that budget. < this does reflect often on what transducer selection you choose.

so budget being 5-6k..... lets work on5.5k to be middle playing field

thinking cap on----- Moose

[Andy56]

Thanks for that run down Moose. Its exactly what most of us want to see. These are the things that ran through my mind too. HOWEVER.

Some of your statements need to be fleshed out a bit, what criterea do you use to judge build quality? Is it reliability or performance? These are two separate issues which always get confused and can land you in hot water. To me build quality, is a reliability issue. To others, the words have different meanings. Performance however, everyone understands.
So are you using both ideas in your" build quality" statement? Do the asthetics come into your thinking?

As an example, a new BMW would have fantastic build quality but we all know it can be a nightmare if things go wrong. A toyota has washing machine characteristics but also has a reputation for reliability. Which has better build quality? Take out the subjective and it gets more accurate. You can have an opinion, but it should be thus stated. We dont judge people on opinions, lol

Just peel that onion a bit more and it would be a fantastic reference Moose.

[barwon jewel]

Thanks Moose,

This system will stay in the one boat . Keeping the Joshua and selling the Noble. I've had the sounders in the Joshua for 12years now and am that used to them that I can pick up what I need. The deeper offshore stuff will be a bit different. Fish the RIP a lot for kings.... offshore Barwon Heads to 70m and Portland / Port Mac the shelf for bluefin.
Cheers

[chocolatemoose]

Thanks for that run down Moose. Its exactly what most of us want to see. These are the things that ran through my mind too. HOWEVER.

Some of your statements need to be fleshed out a bit, what criterea do you use to judge build quality? Is it reliability or performance? These are two separate issues which always get confused and can land you in hot water. To me build quality, is a reliability issue. To others, the words have different meanings. Performance however, everyone understands.
So are you using both ideas in your" build quality" statement? Do the asthetics come into your thinking?

As an example, a new BMW would have fantastic build quality but we all know it can be a nightmare if things go wrong. A toyota has washing machine characteristics but also has a reputation for reliability. Which has better build quality? Take out the subjective and it gets more accurate. You can have an opinion, but it should be thus stated. We dont judge people on opinions, lol

Just peel that onion a bit more and it would be a fantastic reference Moose.

^^^^ Does the quote box appear above. cant see it on my screen for some reason^^^^

Yeah i would agree that Build quality and performance are two different things, Build quality i find is the ability to maintain its physical structure and operational perameter over time. So some examples of that not being good would be the Pre bonded glass screen days, esp with older Humminbirds would often develop moisture between the screen and glass. or dead pixles on lowrance systems. plastic doors not clipping shut in front of map card slots. or magnetic catches coming off < this was a bit of an issue on garmin units for a while. So build quality would be a physical thing. ive found the plastic surrounds on the Simrad NSS range to be a bit average. one would argue that Furuno whilst winning no style points has often maintain a high build quality status.

Performance would encapsulate how well it runs... at any time i spose, be it running just standard sonar or being asked to perform multiple tasks at the one time. so pre HDS carbon days the lowrance HDS series got rather sluggish when asked to do too much at once. same with the older Raymarine A/c/e series units towards the end of their lighthouse version 2 software. it ran a single core 700mghz processor that wasnt bad when the range was launched towards the end with wifi streaming, wifi radar, engine diagnotistcs, fusion link. multple sonar options etc.... it would get rather laggy.....

So it seems though that most brands have taken on the idea of "futureproofing" with performance. integrating Processors and ram that exceed what the system needs now days...... in the mind that when future software or hardware expansions come down the pipeline the unit will be able to handle it.

So to answer your question on what is better build quality........one could argue price is a big flag for it. better quality .stuff.. and better , manufacturing cost more........that being said... a lot of factors make up cost

Humminbird is more expensive than lowrance......but humminbird is also distrubuted here in australia by a 3rd party.. not "johnson outdoors" themselves... so one could argue that yeah its more expensive....but not owing to its features or hardware..

really its a bit of a crystal ball untill models/units have been subjected to a lot of use ,

whats the most reliable unit ...........the 1994 unit that still catches old fellas' fish

[myusernam]

Dunno if u sell em moose but at that price range you could also put in the new furuno MFD? Maybe even a tz?

[Andy56]

The only issue i take to heart is your statement about future proofing the hardware. FAT CHANCE.

What will next years model have? If it is "Perfect" this year, you have nowhere to go next except with a "More Perfect"

Hds
Hds gen 1
HDS gen2
HDS gen 2 touch
HDS gen 3
HDS Carbon

My guess HDS carbon gen 2. Starting to sound like toyota/honda marketing, lol

[chocolatemoose]

Dunno if u sell em moose but at that price range you could also put in the new furuno MFD? Maybe even a tz?

Yeah you could include TZT2s though by the time you add a sonar module you are well over the 6k mark. great systems however