Question for Moose or any Lowrance experts.

[ranmar850]

Regarding the Lowrance Eite-Ti models--are they a Gen 2 HDS interface and OS in full? I've run the two side by side , and, with (almost)every page I accessed, the interface and options available in each sub-menu appeared to be the same. The only difference I can notice is that the Elite is still single card slot, and the HDS is dual. This is comparing a current model HDS to an Elite Ti, BTW--Some say the Ti is a gen 2 HDS, others dispute this.
So, I am thinking of going to a second unit to work alongside my Elite-7 CHIRP. I have it working really well, IMO, with the right transducer, but the page-sensitive menus just drive me crazy. I hate having to change pages ( with buttons) to do something simple like zoom the plotter or manipulate track. Plus, I want bottom lock, so the plan is to use the Elite as a plotter only. I see two options for my price point--the HDS-7, or Elite 9 Ti. Apart from the dual card slots, and the fact that the HDS is ( probably) a generation ahead in OS, what are the differences?

[shappy]

hey mate, i have the 7ti and i know i can't link other head units to it like you can with HDS. i was looking at doing that a month or two ago, but it does link to my motorguide electric. i'm no expert, but i'm sure there is some other features as well found on the HDS and not on the elite ti units

cheers, shappy

[scottar]

There are so many variations now you need to compare the spec sheets on a case by case basis. In the early days of the Elite series they were always a bit slower, slightly down spec'd, didn't network as mentioned and had only one instead of 3 years warranty. Things have probably changed a bit since then though.

[cwcarter]

http://www.teachinfishin.net/wp-cont...ite-vs-hds.pdf

[ranmar850]

Thanks for that. So it would appear there is nothing on the HDS I would use, that I can't get on the Ti.

[patrol50]

comment i would make is that chirp and ss are nice to be able to run together . Ti 9 good because of a bigger screen size so easier to see and to all intents and purpose is essentially equivalent to a hds gen 2 - hds 7 gen 3 good because of chirp and ss capability together and better quicker processor but a smaller screen so more difficult to see {i run a hds 7 gen 2 t with sonar hub and a hds 9 gen 3 )

cheers

[ranmar850]

Of course, at this price point, there are non-Lowrance options. As an ex-commercial user, and someone who had a FCV-600 on my last boat, the Furuno 628 has some appeal. Worst part of the older Furuno's was the very low pixel rate and blocky picture, this would appear to be addressed with the rezboost on the 628? Should be available with a P66 for $1500. The Simrad S2009 looks very good for the money, beautiful screen with a lot of acreage, and I can use (?) my existing HST-DFSBL transducer, may not even need a plug adaptor. Available as a head unit only for under $1200. I would be losing the backup option of being able to swap chartplotter and sounder requirements between the two Lowrance units, should one fail in operation when I am on an extended holiday far from help, as I am on a yearly basis. ChcolateMoose, are you getting good feedback on the S2009 units without going to a very expensive tx option?

[chocolatemoose]

yes and no.
We have ... maybe a 20% of our time dedicated to transducer installations at Moose Marine, and often those who have had lower end transducers often found them mounted in wrong positions "and hey its only a little bit this way or a little bit that way , no big deal : . so ive had a few clients with S2009s with a HSTWSBL and had mediocre performance "no better than my older HDS ....or simrad nss.. etc." when closer inspection has shown that a slight change in transducer position has resulted in pretty good reedings. one of our demo boats is a 5mt evolution with a HSTWSBL for that reason to show how we can get fantastic seperation and performance at speed with a 150 dollar transducer.

i like the vertical aproach to outfitting lower end marine electronics... if you put a S2009 +ss175hw transducer combo on your boat, yeah it would be brilliant. thats well documented. but you will never know if something lower end would of sufficed well enough without spending the coin.

that HSTWSBL is a very wide beam. you do loose a bit of definition as a result. but it is very very proven for its price. and if you find it doesn't live up to your expectations. down the road you can up it to a p66 or b150 or b75 etc.... and keep your budget tight.

Yes you can use the HSTWSBL with the S2009

Moose

[scottar]

Worst part of the older Furuno's was the very low pixel rate and blocky picture, this would appear to be addressed with the rezboost on the 628?

I used to run a 600L and now a 627 (No Rezboost). the two are like chalk and cheese with picture quality and viewing - much better resolution / target separation and no issues with glare.

[skifalls]

Sorry to hijack thread for a question for myself!

@ Moose, what speed to you loose ground on Dave's Evo 500, I have found anything more than 8knots and it's gone, factory install on a HDS 8 Gen 2. Cheers Mat


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[ranmar850]

My current transducer is a HST-DFSBL, not a HSTWSBL. They are actually a narrow beam, very good definition on bottom changes. I have recently mounted it on a sliding bracket, partly as an experiment on depth in the water for quality purposes, but also as a way of getting it above the the bottom of the chine for when I am swinging on my endless rope mooring when I am camped remote--wind changes which swing the boat over the rope can cause it to hang up, potentially breaking that skimmer type off. From the Lowrance comparison page.
HST-DFSBL, Transom, 200kHz, 50KhZ

Frequency	Angle	Beamwidth
200kHz	12°	29ft

Frequency	Angle	Beamwidth
50KhZ	29°	71ft

According to the Lowrance comparison slider, at 130 ft or so, it has half the beamwidth of the HSTWSBL, which should sharpen things up,but of course, makes it easier to miss stuff.

[chocolatemoose]

arh my apologies ranmar. i read it wrong. but you are sot on. the 50khz does sharpen it a fair bit more than the 83khz. in 150ft and less it can make a huge difference to the shape/sharpness.... not forgetting that the modern generation of Simrad/Lowranec will also "sort of" modulate "CHIRP" those existing frequencies. giving a small frequency plus/minus range from those.


in this video we demonstrate the bottom holding. we maxed out and still held bottom fine.. we did manage to get the boat to a slightly faster speed when first playing around with his new 115hp mercury 4s. and hit 61-62kph and still had good bottom holding.

[ranmar850]

I watched the video right through. To what depth would that 3D be functional? You were doing that in PPB--I know it will vary enormously with sea conditions, as it must require a lot of signal return and processing, and a messy return from a rolling boat will probably stuff it up. But under reasonable conditions? And you need the module as well to run it? I mostly fish ocean, from about 50 ft to 140 ft. Although I do go deeper when trolling for billfish. I could see it being useful for picking up bait and pelagic schools in the deeper water. I was actually a very early adopter of 3D sounder technology--you are probably too young to remember ( Dave wouldn't be ) but Humminbird released a 3D sounder back in the 90's . Dreadful thing, concept was obviously ahead of the technology available. At the time, I remember going to sea with the old neighbour, and looking at his LC-15 Lowrance and thinking it was pretty damn good for a recco sounder ( I was pro at the time with much bigger units) . That very LC-15 is now sitting in a drawer in my shed, after I bought the boat it was on many years later.
Scottar, thanks for your input re the 627/628. I tried to see one running today when I was in town, marine electronics tech didn't have one as a demo to show me. Disappointed.

late edit--reading the Simrad home page, it doesn't look like the S2009 is compatible with the 3D module? Could only display 3D via a networked NSS/evo unit?

[patrol50]

well mate for the sort of fishing you do i reckon id be looking at furuno first and then simrad next - i run all lowrance hds but i mainly bay / river fish - mate runs furuno as he mainly offshore fishes and there is no comparison in my view as furuno wins easily out ther

cheers

[Mupster]

Great video you produce there Moose! Love watching fair dinkum tests of gear, the good and the bad points. Must vids are commercials really these days. Keep it up.