Repairs to fibreglass is much harder IMO, there are boily shops everywhere vs fibreglass shops, especially if you live remote.Originally Posted by Flex
You dont see many 25-30 yo ali's because they didnt have the technology back then as we have now.
Good luck getting pin holes in 6mm plate, if you have that you have electrical/dissimilar metal issues!
We are only a small company building 3-5 boats a year which 99% are one off vessels in survey that will offer a full structural 5 year warranty. We have the same warranty for our rec boats at the moment but where only just talking about pushing it out to 10 years maybe even more as we only build about 1 rec boat a year.
I know the Boats and they are an aluminium boat builder for Military operations. I know they do some Kevlar armouring but I was under the impression that it was plating over an aluminium structure
The ones on the website are but they also produce some vacuum infused PVE glass boats for rapid response/ rescue.AC27 in marina.jpg
70 knots in 3m seas? Someone's been drinking.... I'd looovvveee to be proven wrong... I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong but I find those figures hard to swallow.
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Just to be sure 130km/h in 3m seas right?????????
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Yes, this hull- but not this boat.
This hull as it is set up for rec fishing. Powered by a couple of 90 optis. I haven't, nor would I want to push those limits if I had the power to do so.
The boats the various militaries (not Australian) use are the exact same hull but have inflatable sponsoons for stability and up to triple 300hp outboards. To get 70 knots they would probably need about 2x 250hp, the triple configuration is used for redundancy.
You might not believe it and thats fine, your opinion doesnt concern me. I have seen what these boats do (you wont find it on the internet) but we are probably getting a fair way from the intent of this thread so Ill leave it there. My point was ali doesnt flex near as much as glass so will ride harder in a like for like situation.
You're exact words were 70knots in 3m seas.... Think about it... Sorry for the digression. I'm all for fiberglass. I've owned 3 plates and am now onto my first fiberglass cat- not looking back!!!!
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YEs they were. Also preceded by "rated to". The rating is an indication of the strength of the build. No doubt those speeds in those seas is dangerous but the boats are rated to handle those pressures. I doubt many would attempt to run those speeds in those seas but I know a lot of training runs in these things are done in 2-2.5m and they rarely travel less than 50knots anywhere.
This topic has been on my mind too over the past few years and here are my thoughts (No need to bash me...just my opinion)
The early fibreglass boats were designed, tested and evolved through the offshore race scene, the formulas, the Haines hulls, power cat, bullet ect. Most of today's fibreglass boats have been flopped and based off these earlier boats using the 'If it's not broke don't fix it rule.
Aluminium - the earlier plate boats like Star, Stingray and Sportfish were narrower and smaller very similar to the fibreglass boats, some of them handling just as good. The reason people thought they didn't ride as good is mainly because they didn't have flotation foam under the floors to shut up the noise. For some reason around the early 2000's plate boats started turning into shoe boxes. I'm thinking this could be because of the fact that most of the Naval architects in Australia selling kits headed down to Tassie to the AMC and studied "Ship' design for 4 years and then think they are experts in planing trailer boats. Their designs are based on maths formulas not practical race testing. The next ingredient is the Boiler maker who wants to build boats but doesn't have the skills of the qualified Boat builder or shipwright so they order these off the shelf kits from these Naval architects. They build a strong well made product however they know hardly anything about displacement, design, engine setup ect I don't know about you guys but have you noticed how there are numerous brands featuring the exact same hull design designed by the same design companies? The boating public also get used to seeing these fat tubs on the market and then start expecting every company to build them this way. As much as I'd hate to stick up for our Kiwi neighbours - they have the alloy boat design covered. Extreme, Surtees, Whitepointer all have lower centre of gravity, lower sides and more style. They must shake their head with dis belief looking over at us.
I'm no expert but why is it that a narrow Haines signature with a deep deadrise can be as stable as some of these fat platies even with a similar displacement weight? These designers seem to think that stability comes from wider beams with shallower vee...maybe they should look at weight ballance and stop putting the cabins up the front in the anchor wells? I've owned plenty of boats in my lifetime both ally and fibreglass and the most stable boat I owner was a 21ft Bullet raceboat with a 300xs race merc...It was a brick and was only 1.8m wide with a 24-25dgree deadrise....and it was light! All the weight was on the arse and it was a 95mph boat with comfort. How many 21ft plate tubs could handle this much HP and reach this speed?
And also, Aluminium can ride the same as fibreglass if not better- It has been done by some of the leading custom builders here in Aus. I have been in one and was impressed. Maybe not as good as the 233 but certainly better than most.
This is just my opinion and thoughts on this issue...it probably will offend some people on here but it is a discussion forum!
This is all well and good for commercial boats going to some sort of Survey class but it's not really relevant to the hull shape and how soft it rides its directed towards the structure of the vessel.
Here is an example of the current hull we are building to go into 2c Survey Notice how the Structure is done to Lloyds standards, this is because of the horse power rating and its survey class it actually has nothing to do with how the boat will ride in these conditions but how the hull will handle the stresses of landing of waves at high speeds.
When you talking about running at 40-50 knots off 3m waves yes the boat will handle it all day long but will the operator? No not without Shock mitigating seats and even they will limited to short operation times.
Hi reelally, I agree. I think you have hit the nail on the head. The problem is the designs. Then you get a welder, who is not necessarily an experienced boatie, and they build whatever the designer can give them. Designers don't seem to be boaties either, or boaties used to conditions where they're from. But if someone is (the high) premium you pay on a new plate boat then maybe it looks like more value for a high bow and sides, wide and roomy. Console forward of centre for even more room (i.e. formosa )
When old mate started in Townsville I thought we might get some locally made boats suited to local conditions. But then again it wasn't the case with mission magic or palmco boats so why should he be any different.
The moment one of them dares to step out from the crowd and builds a boat for the conditions, with the advantages of plate, then I think they will experience a surge of popularity. If it was me doing it id even name the models with a local flavour.
Then you might get some good hulls with the added benefits of being fully customisable. Not that I would want to be a guinie pig though. It's a lot of coin to shell out on a hull that might not work, or porpoise
Most of this is pretty spot on, since we have been doing a lot of commercial boats over the last 5 or 6 years I have noticed that the entire NSCV/Lloyds standards don't care about how soft the boat rides, they only care about Stability both at speed and at rest and the structure. Hence the reason we keep seeing the same hull shapes time and time again because they work in a commercial aspect.
This is where we have been trying to bridge the gap between a soft ride and still have all the commercial requirements of a survey vessel and at the same time give the aluminium boats some new style and looks.
People keep coming back to the old fibreglass v aluminium debit but it really is irrelevant hull shape is everything and when you get that right combined with correct weight and balance you will be on a winner.
do you know what would be fun...
Get a range of boats together (of a similar size and style) and do a direct comparison away from the constraints of keeping magazine advertisers happy. Equip each with an accelerometer (Iphone with an app would do) and go for a run then do a static stability test as laid out in AS1799 (the pleasure boat standard).
Yes I agree. We did get taken off tack there, the rating I mentioned was in relation to doubts raised about the structural integrity of the boat with the degree of flex it displays. My point of the shock absorption properties of glass got buried a bit.This is all well and good for commercial boats going to some sort of Survey class but it's not really relevant to the hull shape and how soft it rides its directed towards the structure of the vessel.
Here is an example of the current hull we are building to go into 2c Survey Notice how the Structure is done to Lloyds standards, this is because of the horse power rating and its survey class it actually has nothing to do with how the boat will ride in these conditions but how the hull will handle the stresses of landing of waves at high speeds.
When you talking about running at 40-50 knots off 3m waves yes the boat will handle it all day long but will the operator? No not without Shock mitigating seats and even they will limited to short operation times.
The hull actually rides incredibly well in the chop, its difficult to verbalise and I wont attempt to here- it does need to be experienced. But you are correct, those speeds and those conditions will test any human body. They are designed for very fast and quite short rescue runs and are fitted with shock mitigating seats and 5 point harnesses for crew.
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