Jrc ff60

[Almako]

Is anyone else using a JRC FF60 and if so are you happy with it.

I seem to be in a constant battle with mine particularly with interference at depth beyond about 40metres.

At shallower depths it works a treat. After roughly 40m I have to run the revs as 1400 or less to get rid of the interference or turn the gain down which I then seem to miss most of what's down there.

Trymax installed it with a thru hull transducer so I know I done everything I can.
But I'm pretty close to biting the bullet and spending a few bucks on a Furuno. Though Trymax say I may not solve the problem, it could be the prop noise or something. So it would be an expensive way to find out...

Anyway just would like to know if anyone else is still using a JRC FF60 and that you have it working well in these depths, at speed and at idle.

Cheers

[scottar]

If it is prop noise, they are right - changing the sounder is not a guaranteed fix. I did some messing around with transducers with the FF50 during my days with Trymax. My brother in law with a Cruisecraft 625 and a mate with a Koden sounder and a Haines 17C. The Cruisecraft had a wetbox that gave exactly the same symptoms as yours - rock solid in any conditions in shallower water but we could only travel at idle and given we did a lot of pearly fishing it was a problem. I did an experiment using the only other spot in the hull we had access to the outer glass skin - under the bunk in the cabin. With a second wetbox in there we could travel at up to 3000 rpm with almost no noise. At 3000 she would lift her nose enough that the transducer location would come out of the water. After this result, I did the same thing on the 17C as we had never been able to get satisfactory echoes there either - it worked a treat - the picture breaks up a bit in the chop but is good enough for most conditions the boat is likely to be used in even at speed.

I have also seen another rig that had an engine and leg change - as a result of this a new prop was required due to a ratio change in the gearbox. The sounder picture went to crap. Fit the old prop for a quick test - good picture.

I have seen one rig that had noise issue's with a through hull that worked a lot better with a transom mount but that was the only one in 20 years (Gday Soulfish).

Basically it is going to take some testing to try and find a solution. There are options to try, some costing more than others. The big pain is you need to get offshore to see if they make any difference.

[Almako]

Thanks Scottar that's good info there. Have these boats changed brands of sounders since and work efficiently without all that work.
Like i say i'll happily move over to a Furuno or similar if the problem goes away. I'm on my third transducer, and location to no avail.
Thx again..

[scottar]

The Haines is still using the Koden and is all happy, the Cruisecraft was sold and the other Koden I think was replaced but I no longer have contact with the owner. What hull do you have? Do you still have the other transducers?

[soulfish]

As Scotty said putting on an external p66 fixed my noise problem...done my head in for 12months trying to sort it & thanks to Scotty fixed,i would have thought a through hull transducer in the planning plank would be a good position but wasn't to be on my tub.I suffered the same symptoms you have outlined.

[GBC]

I've had an ff50 and an ff60, both with stern mount airmar transducers. They will pick up pearlies in 110m at 20 knots no problem. Your issue is not with the head unit. Yes, you have to back the gain off when on the plane. Manual tuning in 40 metres when searching off the plane should be no more than 40% gain @ 200 htz. 60 metres 60 % etc. Just rules of thumb worked out over the years. Auto range and auto shift work o.k. But I usually run the range a couple of metres deeper than actual depth and shift down to the bottom 20 metres in deeper water, and run a split screen with standard bottom discrimination. Go back to full auto mode when on the plane and let it do its thing. It will wind the gain right back but will still ping fish no problems.
at least if you run those settings you will know if it is an external problem or a tuning problem. Because they are so tunable, they can get difficult to get 'back' after people fiddle with them.

[gofishin]

...installed it with a thru hull transducer...

. Out of interest Almako, what type of hull/boat & where in the hull? You say your 3rd t/d; all same type thru hull/same place?
Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gofishin]

...i would have thought a through hull transducer in the planning plank would be a good position but wasn't to be on my tub.I....

was that your CC Jason?
Cheers
Brendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soulfish]

was that your CC Jason?
Cheers
Brendon

Yes Brendon my previuos 685...I was at east coast marina dry rack the other month & noticed a few later model cc with through hulls trannys installed in the deadrise a foot or so away from the plank,so seems they have moved away from installing in the plank.Also last year when I wet faced 2x2kw transducers in my noosacat I was keen on putting them in the planning plank.But noosacat & the guy who did the job insisted they go in a fairing up the deadrise as from there experiances in the past you get a lot of bubbles tracking down the plank hence poor sounder readings at speed.(it would have been a very easy install for them to fit in the plank compared to fairing).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As for the ff50/ff60 I have owned both of these as well as two 585's in the past & they are a great sounder I reckon.....sounds like a transducer problem based on my experience,i wouldn't be getting rid of it to go to a 587.love the bottom discrimination mode on the ff60.

[gofishin]

That’sinteresting Jason, it seems that the thinking has changed a little over the years!

I wanted a 1kW, 20 deg TE thru hull in my 685, beside the keel plank as per your comments, however was strongly advised against it by both Furuno and CC. They had recently (then, ~2008) installed a few setups like this, and the reading at planing speeds was apparently terrible – which Furuno put down to disturbed & aerated water off the edge/shoulder of the keel plank. I didn’t see the installations or results, so can’t comment further.

I ended up with a 600W, 0 deg thru hull in the keel plank just in front (~100mm) of the transom, in behind/aft of the transom knee. Plank was not wide enough for a 1kW, 0 deg). I was initially a little concerned with it being so close to the prop, however it has been fantastic at all speeds.

A few years ago there was a guy on here (robtar I think) that from memory put a 20deg TE beside the plank in his 625 & 585 sounder, and apparently it worked great.


This probably doesn’t make you feel any better though Almako, as obviously there can be so many variables – like the boys have been saying above. Sorry!

Don’t know if you have considered electrical noise from the motor, or other devices? Have you tried with every powered device off too? Separate/stand-alone battery?.

Although these days with new-tech motors (any stroke), I doubt electrical noise from the motor would be a problem! However, inthe old days it was definitely a problem with older 2-smokes (early 80’s vintage). Sounder interference in one boat had us stumped, even with wet faced T/D and completely separate T/D cable route from all other cables. Found this by accident when towing the guy home at ~22kn one day. Picture was perfect with his engine not running (leg in the water for a bit of stability, i.e. prop spinning, so I doubt prop noise).

Good luck with it & we feel your pain. Just don’t share it around!
Cheers
Brendon

[scottar]

The noise is not always just the prop either. I had a guy in Bunbury WA at one stage that we fitted a JRC 1Kw unit with the output power wound down to a Koden 600w Bronze thru hull after finding totally by accident on a mate of his cray boat that the combination was phenomenal for bottom discrimination (a big thing on the flat country over there). The transducer was fitted in a centrally positioned wet box in front of the Mercruiser's housing so was quite a distance from the prop. On his boat the set up was so noisy it was just like above - unusable at speed. We tried a multitude of different things in an attempt to sort it out for a good couple of months with minimal success. Then he had the engine serviced and the noise totally disappeared. Short of the service agent performing some sort of warranty upgrade and then denying it that one still to this day has me scratching my head as nothing else was changed.

A lot of people confuse poor mounting position for engine or otherwise generated noise. The give away is when the sounder works a treat in shallower water with the gain down but as soon as the gain comes up it gets noisy at speed but all good at idle. Air causes a different pattern -usually with gapping as the sound stops when it hits it.

I knew the sets would operate at speed with high gain settings as I had seen it over west on the cray boats. The difference with them is the transducer is generally mounted in the keel well forward and away from the props so this was the avenue of experimentation I pursued by simply attempting to get space between the transducer and the prop. Within the limitations imposed by the new locations we were happy with the results.

[Almako]

Cheers for the responses guys. So the 3 transducers are, a p66 off the transom, an in hull off to one side of the centre plank in the bilge are, and a through hull where the guys drilled a hole through the centre plank. All the work has been done by Trymax and these guys are the best in the business. The through hull is by far the best picture, but they all end up with the same issue. They are still all installed and have plugs at the unit for me to swap over and experiment at any stage. Funny thing is I've been on Bill C boat many times and he has the same issue just puts up with it. I just recently re-routed the transducer cable around the port side of the boat away from any other cables, and have decided on my next trip to take a separate battery and connect the unit to it on its own just to see what happens (fingers crossed), but I haven't had a chance to get out there just yet. I'm going to need a new prop soon so it will be interesting to see what changes this makes if any. Also considering 4 blade but need to run some tests before Solas can make any recommendations. Keep the ideas coming though as I'm sure there's something I've missed. I guess it's a game of trial and error, and cash out the door.

[scottar]

Trial and error definitely but you already have some stuff you can try prior to spending big bucks. Not sure which CC you have but you do have multiple transducers, one of which could be pulled out for a trip and a temporary wet box setup trialled provided there is still a suitable position. You have the separate power trial already in hand. If you know someone with a Furuno who would go for a fish with you one day, get the lads at Trymax to fabricate an adapter cable for you - cost a lot less than a sounder to start with and if it does work you will need one anyway. What outboard are you running - might be able to borrow a prop to try???

[Almako]

Hey Scottar, its a 625 cruise craft with a 200 hpdi. I find it strange that the major manufacturers that specifically build fishing boats, haven't done any research in this area. You would think that it would be a good selling point.

[outwide1]

I have had both a 575 and 625 CC with JRC FF50 and FF60s. Both had transom mount 600w and 1kw transducers.In both instances I couldn't get them to read at speed unless I turned the gain right done.
The only problem with that was I missed a lot fish and bumps whilst under way.
The cruise crafts are a pain in the arse for wet face or through hul transducers,this and a lot of other issue's was the reason for building a new boat.
I could only imagine the amount of ground I drove over at speed during the 10 years of owning both boats.