Re-wire the boat

[brett62]

Well I am re-powering the boat (motor) and I am going to also re-wire the boat. Purchased 2nd hand and installed a new sounder and removed the instrument panel and started to cry. I had never seen a wiring set up like this before. I sorted most of it out and promised myself that I would fix completely over time. Now that I am throwing a new engine in and have to rearrange the dash to take the new instrument cluster I thought now would be a good time.

I am going to need some help and advice here as I get into it. I have decided once I remove the old motor I am just going to pull all the wiring out and start again. The boat is set up with 2 house batteries and one crank. It has a solar charge system and also a built in battery charger. The boat is also wired for shore power which seems to be ok. I have 3 battery isolation switches and a battery monitoring system and the list goes on. I should have taken photos before I cleaned some of the wiring up but that was 12 months ago and I was in shock for some days trying to work out how the boat had not caught fire or even how anything actually was working. I pulled out some 20 m of redundant wire and still have a heap rolled up hidden away until I got to this stage of re-wiring. They wired some items with house wire and none of the wires are protected and can chaff on sharp edges where they had hole sawed through panels. I am finding items that draw 10 amps and they are wired with 5 amp wire with a 20 amp fuse.

The first question, am I doing the right thing by just taking it all out and start fresh or should I just sort out what is there and see what I can salvage ?. Every time I look at it I want to get the wire cutters out and go to town. Tracking down some of the wiring and trying to work out what the hell it does is starting to really piss me off. The 3 battery switches wiring is the strangest set up I have seen. I have a auto sparky who lives across the road who I got to have a look at the wiring to see if he could make any sense out of it and just laughed and ran home, didn't even finish the beer I gave him as I think he wanted to get out of the yard before I asked him to give me a hand.

Anyway what would you do!!!!!!!!!! I am going to ask many questions

[captain rednut]

HEY BRETT
Its far easier to remove all existing wiring and start again as it takes twice as long to attempt to repair and figure out all the circuits.
And most importantly you will enjoy the reliability of the new wiring.
Cheers Jim

[stockhorse]

I would go the whole hog. "They wired some items with house wire" Make sure that that is not the shore power you are pulling out, that side of things needs to be done by a qualified trades person.

"I am finding items that draw 10 amps and they are wired with 5 amp wire with a 20 amp fuse." This would be the main reason I would opt for a full rewire.

Good Luck with it.

[scottar]

Definitely doing the right thing. Spend the money - do it right = more enjoyable stress free boating experience in the future.

[brett62]

Stockhorse - The shore power is all good and it will stay as is. They have used house wire on some of the DC circuits, they must of had some laying around the house at the time.

Jim - Yep I hear what you are saying. I certainly have spent time trying to work some of it out and you have seen some of what I talking about when you looked at the motor.

Scottar - I have read many of your post and comments on the forums and once I get a plan together would appreciate comments on the setup.

One thing I forgot to mention was I pulled the side panel off to access the main wiring harness where it runs along the side pocket to the dashboard to find that all the power cables are wrapped around the fuel filler hose. This really put me into shock. The filler is only reinforced rubber and if you had a wire burn out and was very real when you have 5 amp wire with 20 amp fuse it would have been interesting. All of these problems are hidden when looking at a boat to buy. Boats are not a good place to have a fire.

Thank you gentleman for your comments and I will rip it all out. Be ready for the questions. Will be a little while before I start as I need to finish off a few other projects on the boat first (finish the trailer, remove the anti foul and get the old engine out) but I will start to purchase fuse boards / wire etc.

Jim I need to re do the dashboard to take the new engine instrument panel for the Yanmar. It's not going to fit the space I have as one unit. I will have to come and see you about this when the time comes.

[chocolatemoose]

get your self a HUUUGEEEass peice of ply board and create your own loom. measure twice cut once they always say
. i always thought those cruisemasters didnt utlise their dash space enough,. perhaps because they had big din size stereos and gauge pods etc. i would smooth the whole thing out and go one big mother of a gps.

but im a tad mental

Moose

[Fed]

Last one I did was a 23' Huntsman, made up & installed a big loom from front to back and sat down to start on the final connections...
Cut & stripped my first wire, UNTINNED Copper!
Talk about having a bad day.

Once you separate out the 240V and the engine wiring which will be new anyway then what's left will be easy Brett.

[brett62]

get your self a HUUUGEEEass peice of ply board and create your own loom. measure twice cut once they always say
. i always thought those cruisemasters didnt utlise their dash space enough,. perhaps because they had big din size stereos and gauge pods etc. i would smooth the whole thing out and go one big mother of a gps.

but im a tad mental

Moose

Moose that's what I have in mind. I am going to remove the VDO instrument cluster and the panel below and make up aluminium panels and sort it out. Going to install circuit boards in the little clothes hanging compartment that's on the forward wall off the toilet. I will also run the backbone etc in this area. I don't think I will be every hanging a jacket in there so found a better use for it, also store my charts and other bits. Going to run the cables over the top of the ceiling in the toilet into the back of the dashboard. Going to be a fair amount of work but the end result will speak for its self.

While I have your attention, when I first purchased the boat I upgraded the sounder and got myself a HDS 10 GEN 2 which I hung from the hardtop as no room to install in the dash. It also came with a Garmin and a stuffed old Lowrance installed in the dash. I am going to bin the old Lowrance and install another sounder when I do the re build. Was thinking of installing another HDS, may-be a touch 7 so I can hook the two together. I could install something else but not sure if the different brands would share information ? . Also upgrading the VHF which I think will be a ICOM M423 and replacing the stereo. Have looked at the Lowrance hub and Fusion gear and really don't know what to get ???????????

[brett62]

FEATURES
	12 fuse outlets
	100 amps maximum per fuse block
	30 amps maximum per individual fuse
	Provision for holding 2 spare fuses
	Common negative and positive
	Accepts ATO and ATC fast acting standard or mini blade fuses
	Clear cover made from polycarbonate
	Cover satisfies ABYC/USCG requirements for insulation
	Base made from reinforced polycarbonate
SPECIFICATIONS
	Max Amps per Circuit	30 AMPS
	Max Amps per Block	100 AMPS
	Max Voltage	32 VOLTS
	Recommended Wire Size	Positive and Negative Feed 14-25mm
	Recommended Torque	#8 Screw 18 in-lb #10 Stud 24 in-lb
	Max Ambient Temperature	0-50°C
	BLOCK DIMENSIONS	164.4mm x 84.2m x 38.6 mm

I was thinking of using these for my fuse boards, probably need 3 to cover everything.

Or if you have any other suggestions ?

[brett62]

Last one I did was a 23' Huntsman, made up & installed a big loom from front to back and sat down to start on the final connections...
Cut & stripped my first wire, UNTINNED Copper!
Talk about having a bad day.

Once you separate out the 240V and the engine wiring which will be new anyway then what's left will be easy Brett.

Fed that would have been a real bad day. I am trying to find some heavier gauged wire (tinned) to run from the battery's to the fuse boards at present. I think using anything but Tinned wire will probably cause me trouble down the track. The whole boat wiring now is just standard wire and the boat is 15 years old so I would expect that it's only a matter of time before it starts to show it's true colours. I may be wrong and could last another 15 years but from what I have read on here everyone uses tinned, cost more but do it once and properly and I should have no problems again.

Your right mate, once I get going I should be ok with it all. I now know why I named the boat after the wife. High cost and a lot of maintenance.

[scottar]

Blue Seas distribution modules are a good thing Brett. Tinned wire is a good thing but even tinning simply prolongs the inevitable - best idea is to keep it dry. Years ago wired one of my own boats in standard automotive flex as that was what I had available to me at the time - I had that boat 20 years without issue. By the same token, I have seen new boats that the design of the dash and the operating conditions mean the electrics are inevitably getting wet, that have required substantial rework twice inside 5 years of age even with tinned wire.

On your rig, dry shouldn't be an issue and I would still use tinned cable but make sure that any fuse panels etc aren't going to be inadvertently exposed to water. I would be looking at using 4mm twin for the low current stuff - seems a bit of overkill but the extra diameter gives a bit more of a safety net against vibration breakages/corrosion. 6mm twin is usually enough as a main for the average trailer boat but with your rig maybe a bit heavier - there are plenty of calculators on the net for cable size/length/current required calculations.

Personally I don't bother making looms prior to install. First step is hardware space allocation making sure you allow room for cables to be neatly fixed or trayed as required. Mount your hardware, then run your cables in - critical part here is a good permanent marker - label EVERYTHING clearly. Then tidy up the cable runs - many options available depending on the space, with the last step being the fit off.

Make sure you use good quality crimps and most importantly a good crimp tool. In wet areas, I tend to use soldering and multiple waterproofing mediums and where possible anchor the join at a high point so water on the cable runs away from the join, not into it.

You are sure to utilise your entire vocabulary of 4 letter words over the course of the project as it is a pretty substantial and at times uncomfortable and frustrating but it will be worth it once you are done

[chocolatemoose]

blueseas or BEP pro installer stuff you cant go wrong.
good quality twincore twinsheeshed tinned
id suggest the the SAW reelaxn 12way membrane panel to save space and wiring.

this is going to be exciting

[Fed]

There seems to be a fair amount of tinned flexible cable around now both single core & twin sheathed. Last time I was looking it was a bit hard to find.

[scottar]

blueseas or BEP pro installer stuff you cant go wrong.
good quality twincore twinsheeshed tinned
id suggest the the SAW reelaxn 12way membrane panel to save space and wiring.

this is going to be exciting

Slightly different opinion on the switch panels here Moose. I had a charter boat client who built a new rig using a similar modular electronically controlled voltage distribution system on a new boat he built a few years back - his single biggest regret with the new boat. Any time a single circuit fails (and electronic stuff inevitably does in a marine environment), he has to replace an entire module. He has also had module failure and thus experienced loss of every circuit on that module. The systems do have a place if they are a last resort due to space restrictions or access limitations but IMO a traditional approach is a simpler, more reliable option.

[chocolatemoose]

if you want to save a lot of hassle. have the loom diagram drawn up for you by.. well any number of people. then tick off as you go.
that HDS10 would be a pretty bad blind spot . IMO. whilst some good tech is there. id sell all of them whilst they are still worth a few bucks and buy a decent 9" unit and dash mount. that would be plenty big enough for a dash.