Re-wire the boat

[brett62]

Blue Seas distribution modules are a good thing Brett. Tinned wire is a good thing but even tinning simply prolongs the inevitable - best idea is to keep it dry. Years ago wired one of my own boats in standard automotive flex as that was what I had available to me at the time - I had that boat 20 years without issue. By the same token, I have seen new boats that the design of the dash and the operating conditions mean the electrics are inevitably getting wet, that have required substantial rework twice inside 5 years of age even with tinned wire.

On your rig, dry shouldn't be an issue and I would still use tinned cable but make sure that any fuse panels etc aren't going to be inadvertently exposed to water. I would be looking at using 4mm twin for the low current stuff - seems a bit of overkill but the extra diameter gives a bit more of a safety net against vibration breakages/corrosion. 6mm twin is usually enough as a main for the average trailer boat but with your rig maybe a bit heavier - there are plenty of calculators on the net for cable size/length/current required calculations.

Personally I don't bother making looms prior to install. First step is hardware space allocation making sure you allow room for cables to be neatly fixed or trayed as required. Mount your hardware, then run your cables in - critical part here is a good permanent marker - label EVERYTHING clearly. Then tidy up the cable runs - many options available depending on the space, with the last step being the fit off.

Make sure you use good quality crimps and most importantly a good crimp tool. In wet areas, I tend to use soldering and multiple waterproofing mediums and where possible anchor the join at a high point so water on the cable runs away from the join, not into it.

You are sure to utilise your entire vocabulary of 4 letter words over the course of the project as it is a pretty substantial and at times uncomfortable and frustrating but it will be worth it once you are done

Thanks scottar,

The only wires that will see water in the boat will be the bilge pumps. The rest of the set up is all covered and I am putting the fuse panels in a cupboard in the cabin well away from water. Labelling the wires is also something I will defiantly be doing as suggested.

One question that comes up a lot is the wiring of sounders. Should I run power to these electronic direct from the battery or is it ok to run from the fuse board and should I power everything from the house batteries and leave the crank battery just for engine power.

I have some type of solar charging/battery management system that keeps all 3 batteries charged and when engine is running also tops up all 3 batteries. I can't remember the brand but I do have a manual some where I need to find. I will need some help with the proper installation of these systems as they look like they have been tampered with some what and have no idea if it's working how it should. Need a circuit diagram to work it out.

I am also going to install a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter so I can run the micro wave. Handy to just re heat a meal out on the water or run the coffee maker.

I suppose one good thing about starting all over again is I will know how all the crap in the boat works.

[chocolatemoose]

Attachment 107677
heres what i would do. facia the dash panel or re fiberglass it smooth. stick a 9" touch unit off to the left hand side so its not obstructed by the steering wheel and you get you visibility back looking forward
replace that stereo with a 12way membrane panel with its circuit breaker box behind.
pull out the 27mgz... just because... maybe get some knee space back
for a stereo id run a fusion black box with its small NRX200 size panel. even then run a networked nm2k. remote to the cabin and out the back where the seating is.

pull out the whittley VDO guage cluster "like whittley did themselves on later models" and replace with a flat panel for what engine gauges you will have next.

and then you would have very neat and tidy and less wiring to worry about dash.

moose

[scottar]

One question that comes up a lot is the wiring of sounders. Should I run power to these electronic direct from the battery or is it ok to run from the fuse board and should I power everything from the house batteries and leave the crank battery just for engine power.


I am also going to install a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter so I can run the micro wave. Handy to just re heat a meal out on the water or run the coffee maker.

I wouldn't bother with separate power supply mains for electronics as an initial install. It may be a tool used in the rectification of electrical noise issues but in reality these are rare. On a boat like yours, where it is highly probable that you may/will spend a weekend with the family anchored up enjoying yourselves, a dedicated start battery is a must. I would have a VSR with a manual paralleling override to charge your house bank/s.

The inverter, much like the anchor winch and any other high current devices should have it's own dedicated supply. At that size under full loads it will have the capability to draw about 200 Amps ( About 100 with a 1000 watt microwave). Supply lines will need to be as short as possible, gauged accordingly and have the required circuit breaker. You should also be mindful of always having the engine going and the VSR engaged when using any high wattage loads. Breakers for these and the main breaker for the rest of the house power should be as close to the batteries as practical so as to protect as much of the cable as is possible.

From what I have seen on the Whittleys, the solar is usually a single regulator that charges the start battery and then the house via a VSR. Yours may or may not be set up this way so if you can find the diagrams that would be best.

[brett62]

Attachment 107677
heres what i would do. facia the dash panel or re fiberglass it smooth. stick a 9" touch unit off to the left hand side so its not obstructed by the steering wheel and you get you visibility back looking forward
replace that stereo with a 12way membrane panel with its circuit breaker box behind.
pull out the 27mgz... just because... maybe get some knee space back
for a stereo id run a fusion black box with its small NRX200 size panel. even then run a networked nm2k. remote to the cabin and out the back where the seating is.

pull out the whittley VDO guage cluster "like whittley did themselves on later models" and replace with a flat panel for what engine gauges you will have next.

and then you would have very neat and tidy and less wiring to worry about dash.

moose

I like the idea moose but I would not dare tell the wife I want to sell the hds 10 that I have used 3 times. My life would be finished in a heart beat. The photo is not the best angle to show where the HDS is mounted. I can still see fine driving but would rather have been able to mount in the dash. I may even be able too mount on a bracket on the left side once I jazz the dash up. You are a man with ideas moose. I am working away for the next couple of days and when I am home I will get a couple of photos to show what I have/doing.

I can't seem to open the attachment?

[chocolatemoose]

oh strange yeah, thought the image would attatch. not to worry.
might even be able to squeeze that 10" indash that would look pretty snazzy . when i was a child i remember going to the whittley factory to see them build the new 700 series and thinking OMG THERE IS SO MUCH ROOM!. i remember looking at one now as a late 20 something year old and thinking. wow..i was small when i was 12.

really excited to see your progress

Moose

[brett62]

scottar - I have been home for my break and removed the covers at the transom to the batteries and wiring down the back to check on the set up for the solar panels etc. I do see what you are talking about with regards to the regulator etc. It's funny how I said everything was working fine but wondered for how long. I put my charger on the batteries every time I am home just to keep them conditioned and I switched on the house batteries to run a few things and no power. So I gave the bunch of wires a kick and the power came on. I was going to take a few photos of the very poor wiring insulation to show you but I would think you have seen it all before. I have found all the circuit diagrams for the equipment which will help sort the mess out.


The plan is to draw up a circuit diagram of what I am going to do with as much detail I can supply. If you could have a look at what I propose and comment would be great. I have never drawn a electrical circuit up before so I will do the best I can. It will take me some time as I have other projects on the boat under way and need to finish them off first. I have ordered my fuse boards and other bits but will wait till I get the circuits drawn up before I purchase any more. What I have decided on so far is as follows, let me know if I am on the right path.

• Going to re-wire using tinned wire
• All wires will be crimped and sealed. (no soldering as they can break ?)
• All regulators/switches/mains fuses will be in water prof boxes at the transom close to batteries.
• All items will be run on separate circuits and be clearly labelled.
• All wires will be run in conduit where they are not protected.
• No fuses/switches in the engine bay area.

I am getting closer to the stage of getting rednuts to remove the motor and drive which is when I will tackle the re-wire. Having a clear run will make the job a little easier with all the old motor wiring out of the picture. I will also be re-working the dash area to accommodate the new engine controls etc. I sat down and looked at the scope of work and can see many hours re-wiring everything but I think I will enjoy it much more than sanding off the anti foul from the hull which is one projects on the go at present.

[chocolatemoose]

sounds like one groovy project.

[scottar]

No worries Brett

[brett62]

sounds like one groovy project.

Hey moose once I get a few of these jobs completed I will need to talk to you about some electronics and see what you have. I looked at the dash board and started to work out how I am going to modify the bloody thing and your great idea won't work as easy as I hoped. I am doing a work around to see what I can come up with.

[brett62]

Ok I am attempting to draw up the circuit diagram for the rewire. Its in a raw state at present and I will need help.


Just working through what the set up is with the batteries and charge system. I am going to assume a few things here and correct me please.


I have two house batteries and a crank battery. I have a battery isolation switch to shut power off for the house batteries and also a separate switch to shut off the crank battery. I then have another switch that I assume connects the house and crank batteries together.

I also have a solar panel charging the batteries but not sure if it charges crank and house batteries at same time. I then have the alternator from the motor which I assume would only charge the crank battery. I then have a 240v charger installed which I am not sure what it charges and how.

My idea of what should happen is as follows.

• The solar charger would charge the crank battery 1st and once charged would switch over to charge the house batteries.
• The alternator would charge the same way.
• The 240v charger would charge all 3 batteries at the same time.
• The battery monitor would insure that I always had full charge to the crank battery.

As I am rewiring I have no problem with changing any of the set up if someone can explain what I need. I certainly see having a circuit diagram for the wiring of the boat will be a great advantage. I have never tackled drawing a circuit diagram so please be prepared for some silly questions.

Boat wiring Model (1).pdf

[stockhorse]

Fuse box 2 in that diagram has a capacity for 140 amp and would need 140 amp fuse in power wire into it. fuse box 3 has only 35 amp with lots of spares. spread the load over the two fuse boxes leaving some spares in each. you could even spread the load over the 3 fuse boxes leaving some spares in each.
Remember on power lines to fuse boxes put fuses as close to battery as possible.
Need a fuse between batteries a and b and abs switch and to feed the 3 fuse boxes it would need to be a 250 amp fuse.

Not sure what you think switch for battery a and b will do as you only have one feed from those batteries to the switch, is it just to turn those batteries off?

I would also look at running some things off the C battery such as manual bildge pump, garmin etc so you can still run the boat, navigate, have running lights etc in case of a total house bank fail.

[brett62]

Fuse box 2 in that diagram has a capacity for 140 amp and would need 140 amp fuse in power wire into it. fuse box 3 has only 35 amp with lots of spares. spread the load over the two fuse boxes leaving some spares in each. you could even spread the load over the 3 fuse boxes leaving some spares in each.
I will do that. The fuse boards are only good for 100 amp and I can spread the load over the 3 boards.

Remember on power lines to fuse boxes put fuses as close to battery as possible.
Yep I will have a sealed box down the back with the batteries and I will show that once I update the diagram.

Need a fuse between batteries a and b and abs switch and to feed the 3 fuse boxes it would need to be a 250 amp fuse.
OK I understand.

Not sure what you think switch for battery a and b will do as you only have one feed from those batteries to the switch, is it just to turn those batteries off?
The set up at present is the switch just shuts off the house supply. Is that ok or do you have another idea.

I would also look at running some things off the C battery such as manual bildge pump, garmin etc so you can still run the boat, navigate, have running lights etc in case of a total house bank fail.

OK I understand. I will run one of the fuse boards from battery C and power the important items.

Thanks for looking at the diagram stockhorse I will update the diagram.

[brett62]

Here is rev 2.

I have run Fuse Board 3 from Battery C and placed a isolation switch so power can be shut off. Also added circuit breakers.

Boat wiring Model (1).pdf

[scottar]

Hi Brett,

there are issues with a bypass of the shunt and you have a few switches/breakers that are really just adding points of failure and can be done away with mate. If you are happy to wait until next week, pm me a phone number, and once I'm home from work I will give you a ring.

Regards

Scott

[Dignity]

Brett, just a question, my auto trim tabs each have a 15 amp fuse for each actuator and a 30 amp for the power supply to the control box, noticed you had only a 5 amp for yours. Is this too small or even needed.