inverter generator no earth leakage protection - calling sparky's

[Si]

G'day, I have been using an inverter generator for awhile now camping and also for work. . I love it. Its whisper quiet and very portable. However I have been told that there is no earth leak protection using an inverter generator. So for work I have attached my anti static earth creel to inverter
and drive an earth stake into dense wet soil. Is this a normal thing for inverter generators and could I get crazy life threatening voltages if say I run a lead in the rain or possibly damaged the cord and expose live electrical wires with no trip protection? I was told an RCD won't work?

[banksmister]

Some good info

http://www.constructors.com.au/safet...0Generator.pdf

[banksmister]

Some not so useful.

earth.jpg

[TheRealAndy]

A generator is typically floating, so an ELCB is useless. If you touch a live wire, you wont get an electric shock as you need to complete a circuit back to the neutral wire. If you touch and live an neutral wire at home, and you are in rubber boots say, the ELCB will not trip anyway. Think of your generator as you working in boots all the time.

If your generator is not floating, and has ground tied to neutral, then an ELCB will work provided you have an earth stake. I think this is pretty uncommon in Australia (I have never seen it in portable gensets) as most people dont use earth stakes and therefore its safer to have the genset floating. I just checked my manual for my Yamaha EF2400IS and there is no neutral earth connection, so an ELCB and and earth stake are pointless.



FWIW, IIRC you legally only need an earth stake if you are connecting the generator to a fixed mains panel which should have an Neutral-Earth link. The earth stake should be part of the subpanel installation anyway.

[TheRealAndy]

Just checked the Honda Inverter generator manual (EU10i) and it also has no neutral earth link. I would hazard a guess that its probably not allowed in Australia, but I would have to check Aus Standards wiring rules for generators to confirm.

[TheRealAndy]

Just checked the Honda Inverter generator manual (EU10i) and it also has no neutral earth link. I would hazard a guess that its probably not allowed in Australia, but I would have to check Aus Standards wiring rules for generators to confirm.

Ok, just checked the non inverter honda types in the steel frames (IE, EG4500CX) and they do have a neutral-earth bond. In this case, and ELCB will work provided you have either an earth stake or the generator frame makes good contact with the earth.

So it seems the inverter types mostly have a floating earth, and therefore dont need an earth stake or ELCB. The metal frame types do not seem to have a floating earth and will work with an ELCB in principle.

Therefore the answer if an ELCB and earth stake is useful or not will depend entirely upon your model genset. Best to ask a qualified sparky if you genset has a earth neutral link.

So far the two manuals I have checked (your genset should have a wiring diagram toward the back of the manual) that wont work with an ELCB are the Yamaha EF2400IS and the Honda EU10i. If you want me to check yours, point me to a manual with the Australian wiring diagram, as the euro and us versions all seem to have the earth and neutral connected.

[Lloyd Fauchelle]

AS-3012 recommends that a mobile generator supplying power to isolated hand tools is not earthed through an earth stake as this can allow high fault currents to circulate; Where portable generators are used with metallic structures such as lighting towers the generator earth must be bonded to the metallic structure. AS-3012 requires that a mobile generator supplying power to a fixed installation is earthed either via the fixed installation earthing or if a separate generator earth stake is used in conjunction with the fixed installation earth system. These must be bonded together;

[TheRealAndy]

AS-3012 recommends that a mobile generator supplying power to isolated hand tools is not earthed through an earth stake as this can allow high fault currents to circulate; Where portable generators are used with metallic structures such as lighting towers the generator earth must be bonded to the metallic structure. AS-3012 requires that a mobile generator supplying power to a fixed installation is earthed either via the fixed installation earthing or if a separate generator earth stake is used in conjunction with the fixed installation earth system. These must be bonded together;

Cheers Lloyd. Sitting in an office and not on the tools you forget some of this stuff! I do have copies of all the relevant AS's but they are all at the office.

[Si]

I'm using a Honda EU 20i . I was using it to supply power to a crib hut / portable site shed to run few simple devices like a fridge, laptop etc. There is a steel clip on the front where you can attach a earth lead clip. Lloyd - I'm kinda confused now. I'm a simple man really. If I don't earth and I'm using isolated hand tools, can I get seriously zapped, is there any protection for me say if I damage the cord by heavy machinery or whatever?

[TheRealAndy]

I'm using a Honda EU 20i . I was using it to supply power to a crib hut / portable site shed to run few simple devices like a fridge, laptop etc. There is a steel clip on the front where you can attach a earth lead clip. Lloyd - I'm kinda confused now. I'm a simple man really. If I don't earth and I'm using isolated hand tools, can I get seriously zapped, is there any protection for me say if I damage the cord by heavy machinery or whatever?

This look like the manual for you genset : http://campaigns.hondampe.com.au/Pow...eu20iown01.pdf If you look at the back the U type shows the Austrlian plug and its isolated. If you have a manual for you genset see if its the same.

If your genset is the same, you wont get zapped and there is no point using an ELCB or an earth stake.

With regard to getting zapped, this is something 99% of people dont understand. To get electrocuted you have to touch both the active and neutral wires. In your home, the earth pin on your power socket is connected to the netural wire, so you can get electrocuted by touching the active wire and the earth. I was going to try and explain it, but its hard. If anyone is interested I would be willing to show an example in real life and this would involve me hanging onto the active side of a power cord! I have done this demo many times!!! I can also demonstrate how and ELCB trips.

[Feral]

In my experience generators under 8kva dont generally come with earth circuit leakage. Which is why we always hired or bought 8kva or bigger for work. (qualify that by saying it has been a couple of years since I did much with them though, so things might have changed).

[GBC]

Head into Kennards and you will see all their honda eu20i's with little mini earth stakes and leads hanging off them. Christ only knows what they are actually attached to. I've had the conversation with them but only end up with blank looks all round.