E-tec or four stroke?

[conco46]

I have watched many of these Etec threads and have looked at them for the same reasons as you. I found their advertising deceiving as they promote the whole 300hr or 3 yr servicing thing but if you read their material there is a small asterix attached that says to consult the owners manual. That is because if you use it in salt water then they recommend additional oil changes every 100hrs. There is also the oil. If you follow the Etec gospel, to avoid problems then you must use the approved oil or problems arise. For me there is also the issue of the oil bottle sitting where I would like to place my second battery.
I would go for a 4 stroke for the reasons listed above and also because whether it is deserved or not Etec's have a stigma attached and therefore resale of the motor or a boat with them in my opinion appears to be lower.

some good points there thanks

[Still_Dreamin]

Gday Conco46, I also ventured into the >5m class of boat last year. I ended up with a Tournament 1750 with 90hp ETEC on a Dunbier trailer. Would have liked a 4 stroke at the time but the reality was I didn't have the extra $3000 required to change to 4stroke. I looked at baysport with 2 stroke yamaha form burpengary yamaha, stejcraft with mercury 2 stroke from cunnungham marine and they were all quoting around the same dollar value to change to 4 stroke. Those dollars that would have been spent on 4 stroke came in handy upgrading my fishing gear for use outside. Yes there is a caveat on the 3yr/300 hour service with ETEC. I just had my first annual inspection/oil change performed by Downes marine at Newstead. It cost $150. I know I could have done this myself but my way of thinking is there is now a record that it has been performed so if there is a need for a warranty claim then they won't be able to weasel their way out by saying I didn't get it done. The added bonus is that Downes identified an issue with the tilt and trim and got it replaced under warranty. No questions asked just had to take it back the following week when part arrived. The motor itself is fine, starts first go every go. Doesn't smoke, trolls happily. You just have to have thick skin if you go to a meet and greet as everyone will hang shit on the ETEC. I am surprised how civil this thread has stayed so far. I believe it is like the whole cover your ute/boat/convertible threads that are going on this site. you know, a mate of a mate heard someone say their mate saw a mates ETEC blow up but if there are no photos then it didn't happen as far as I am concerned. I am sure there have been some failures especially in the earlier models but I am happy with mine. I get over 2km/litre and in 60hours use have used less than 8 litres of the xd100 oil which costs around $65 for 4 litres. Like everything in lifr look after it and it will be fine. Blindly follow the 3yr/300hr promo stuff and you are just wanting trouble.

[Moonlighter]

Hi Conco

If you are looking at 20-23 foot boats I imagine youll be looking at 200-250hp, depending on the boat.

That is a quite different ballpark to comparing the 75 etec to the 70 Yammy.

For a start, most of these engines are up in the V6 category. So the etec will use a lot more XD100 oil than the 75hp your mate has. Apart from the silly 300hr marketing stuff, the gap between servicing costs, especially after the frst 100 hours, will be closer. So adding the cost of the XD100 into the equation probably brings the total operating cost pretty close together.

I know 2 outboard dealers personally. On is a Yammy and one is a Suzuki dealer. Neither of them will even quote you on a trade in for an etec. This isnt because they hate them, it is simply because they cant sell them as used engines - it is purely a business decision and driven by the market. At the same time, neither of them have any trouble selling used 4 strokes of any brand.

So that tells you what to expect when it comes time to upgrade our engine or sell your boat. It will be much easier to sell, and at a better price, with a 4 stroke on the back. Thats not me speaking, it is what the market is saying.

I do agree with other comments that 4 strokes take more expertise and skill to set up properly, and esecially to get them propped for optimum performance. So if you go that way, talk to potential dealers about that and make a judgement about how good they are in this space - will they work with you to get the boat proppped right, will they swap props around if you arent happy, is there a charge for that etc.

If they are very good, they will already know what prop will best suit our boat/motor combo because they will have set up others that are the same or similar. Thats what i found with my Suzuki dealer - he knew straight away what prop would be best, but was not 100% certain about engine height as he hadnt set up a 115 on my make of boat before. So after discussing with me, he did lift the engine one hole at the 20 hour service at no charge, which is the sort of service you should be looking for.

Good luck with it.

[bf90]

mate of mine used to have a 150 etec 07 model on a 609 stabbi. it went like a bat out of hell. personally I found it to be a little fumey at idle. He only used the 100 etec oil in it. he sold the entire rig when it had 200 hours on the clock, still no problems. he now has a zuke 140, great donk but just does not have the low down nuts of the etec. Both good motors. Myself I have a honda, for my money I would never go back to a 2 banger again, nothing wrong with them but I just love the quietness and smooth power of a 4 banger. I agree with above comments that second hand etecs are hard to sell either on their own or as a package on a boat. Cheers.

[conco46]

Hi Conco

If you are looking at 20-23 foot boats I imagine youll be looking at 200-250hp, depending on the boat.

That is a quite different ballpark to comparing the 75 etec to the 70 Yammy.

For a start, most of these engines are up in the V6 category. So the etec will use a lot more XD100 oil than the 75hp your mate has. Apart from the silly 300hr marketing stuff, the gap between servicing costs, especially after the frst 100 hours, will be closer. So adding the cost of the XD100 into the equation probably brings the total operating cost pretty close together.

I know 2 outboard dealers personally. On is a Yammy and one is a Suzuki dealer. Neither of them will even quote you on a trade in for an etec. This isnt because they hate them, it is simply because they cant sell them as used engines - it is purely a business decision and driven by the market. At the same time, neither of them have any trouble selling used 4 strokes of any brand.

So that tells you what to expect when it comes time to upgrade our engine or sell your boat. It will be much easier to sell, and at a better price, with a 4 stroke on the back. Thats not me speaking, it is what the market is saying.

I do agree with other comments that 4 strokes take more expertise and skill to set up properly, and esecially to get them propped for optimum performance. So if you go that way, talk to potential dealers about that and make a judgement about how good they are in this space - will they work with you to get the boat proppped right, will they swap props around if you arent happy, is there a charge for that etc.

If they are very good, they will already know what prop will best suit our boat/motor combo because they will have set up others that are the same or similar. Thats what i found with my Suzuki dealer - he knew straight away what prop would be best, but was not 100% certain about engine height as he hadnt set up a 115 on my make of boat before. So after discussing with me, he did lift the engine one hole at the 20 hour service at no charge, which is the sort of service you should be looking for.

Good luck with it.

great advice mate thanks,
I had my heart set on a 200 suz, yam, Honda, but my mate kept braging about his etec, but I promised my self after my last boat no more 2 stokes, cause most of my boating will be trolling.

so now whitch brand, I have been thinking zuke 200hp, but I keep hearing great things about Honda, but then I heard Honda is pulling out of marine engines???????????????
im looking for best fuel and quietness.

p.s how do I know if my engine is set up right, if dealer says yeah we know what we r doing and I go for a spin how will I know if it is right?

what sort of boat does ur 115 hp sit on mate?

[Moonlighter]

great advice mate thanks,
I had my heart set on a 200 suz, yam, Honda, but my mate kept braging about his etec, but I promised my self after my last boat no more 2 stokes, cause most of my boating will be trolling.

so now whitch brand, I have been thinking zuke 200hp, but I keep hearing great things about Honda, but then I heard Honda is pulling out of marine engines???????????????
im looking for best fuel and quietness.

p.s how do I know if my engine is set up right, if dealer says yeah we know what we r doing and I go for a spin how will I know if it is right?

what sort of boat does ur 115 hp sit on mate?

My 115 Suzuki sits on the back of a Surtees 5.5 Workmate.

You cant go wrong with anything from Suzuki, Yamaha or Honda. Find out who is the best dealer in your area, the with the best reputation for service. If they sell Hondas, go with them. Or if they sell Yammies or Zukes, go wit them. You get the drift!

Engine setup mostly comes down to whether the height is set correctly on the transom.

At a fast cruise speed, say 3/4 throttle, normal engine trim position, the big anti-ventilation plate above the propellor should be just skimming the surface of the water, or being splashed. If it is buried under water, it is too low, is creating a heap of unnecessary drag, and the engine is not set at the optimum height for speed and economy.

Get someone trustworthy to take the wheel when ou have her up to speed on a smooth bit of water, go down the back, hang on, and leanover and have a look! (Tip: put a red sticky dot on the trailing end of the plate so you can see it easier)

You have to get the engine height right first, only then should you play around with props.

The critical thing, once engine heigh is good, is to select a prop that will let the engine rev out to somewhere vy near its max rpm. For example, my Suzuki DF115 recommended rev range is 5000-6000rpm, but the rev limiter doesnt cut in till about 6400.

My Suzuki 20" pitch stainless prop gets me 6200rpm and 66km/hr with a light load, and we hit just a tad over 6000 yesterday with 3 big blokes on board and the usual gear and esky. It accelerates like a cut cat. My dealer is very happy with that, in fact he said it was exactly as he likes them to be propped.

You might beat me with a 115 etec over the 100m sprint, but I reckon it would be a close thing. It will throw passengers out the back if I hit it hard!

4 strokes accelerate differently to 2 strokes. More progressive, smoother, whereas the 2 strokes tend to hit you all of a sudden. It is different, but you get used to it and it is definitely not a problem on bars etc, provided you have the engine propped correctly as outlined above.

I could probably try a prop with 2" more pitch. But I think the 400rpm drop i am likely to see will compromise acceleration out of the hole.

I dont know where you heard that rumour about Honda, but it is BS. In fact, they have just done a deal with Tohatsu to badge Hondas as Toeys, I can only imagine the increased total combined sales volumes will help Hondas economies of scale even more.

By the way, if you are doing lots of trolling, you will love the Suzukis. My 115 uses about 1.2 litres an hour at a slow troll speed. And it doesnt mind doing that all day. Imagine trolling for 10 hours and using 12 litres of petrol!

Cheers

ML

[conco46]

By the way, if you are doing lots of trolling, you will love the Suzukis. My 115 uses about 1.2 litres an hour at a slow troll speed. And it doesnt mind doing that all day. Imagine trolling for 10 hours and using 12 litres of petrol!

Cheers

thanks for the post mate much appreciated

ML[/QUOTE]

[Tangles]

My take, apart from the sense that ML has said in his posts, really depends on what you are doing as well, offshore i reckon you cant go past a good 4 stroke...IMO cant go wrong with the Yammies, Hondas or Suks

Resale if this is important? Etecs, Verados and Yammie HPDI's are hard to sell also i reckon, i presonally wouldnt look at a boat with these on the back, just my opinion. Mate has a 200 early model Etec and it goes like a shower but hard to prop if the conditions are crap and you need to punch through as really loses economy when you need to get home in slop, at its sweet spot its brilliant but a smaller window than the 4 strokes offshore, love how you dont have to work the throttle so much. The big verados, great motor but bloody heavy and would i buy one with a few hundred hours on it? No but i would with a Yammie, Honda or Suk.


Just my opinion

In the 2 stroke world, i wouldnt hesitate with an Opti, every boat ive been on with one of those has been brilliant and impressed me. The big etecs where good but a small window... just my take and sure there are guys with way more knowledge than me will disagree.

[bigpat]

I too couldn't see Honda pulling out after decades of pioneering and refining 4 stroke outboard technology, and doing the hards to have the following among boaties that they have nowadays....

Also you wouldn't spend multi millions on R&D and tooling on a new 250 if you are going to throw in the towel.

One thing that I would objectively evaluate when choosing brands, is servicing intervals and costs, against hours clocked up per year, and features. The lean burn feature of Honda and Suzuki are a plus, especially trolling or at easy cruise.

Some Suzuki experts /owners can correct me, but I believe that Suzuki's require valve tappet adjustment after 300 or so hours, and use shim adjustment, being labour intensive, and thus expensive.

My Honda uses conventional screw & nut for adjustment. I understand Yamaha's uses the same system. Now if you only do 30-50 hours a year, big deal, its a long time between drinks. But if you genuinely do the hours out there, it adds up. Download the owners /service manuals of the brands and compare.

Above all, make sure that you have a rapport/confidence in the dealer, makes life easier. In my case, New World Marine (Honda) have been nothing but helpful to me, and thus I am happy to spend my money there.

Cheers,

Pat

[fisho8]

Got a 150 Yammi on the back of my Surtees love it and cannot fault it so far I have also got a 15hp Merc 4 stroke have had no issues with it whatsoever either. So I am saying 4 stroke........Now where is the popcorn.

[julian1]

yep if resale is a concern stick with one of the Jap 4 bangers

[Gazza]

Get an Etec for now, and just wait for a 6 stroker to be released , to make 4st. Obsolete!!
and 4strokes r good $$ 4 weight for the scrapmetal merchants.

[Moonlighter]

Some Suzuki experts /owners can correct me, but I believe that Suzuki's require valve tappet adjustment after 300 or so hours, and use shim adjustment, being labour intensive, and thus expensive.

I watched my mechanic do the valve clearances check at the 20 hour service, which is compulsory. It took him 20 minutes on the 4 cylinder DF115. The shims, if required, are a few dollars each and they pop in or out as quick as you could turn the screwdriver and spanner on the Honda's adjustment. I am not sure about the 300 hr service requiring the same check, but even if it does, I can't see it taking any more time than for the other 4 stroke brands.

Sounds like one of those things that one manufacturer says about another just to try to prove they have an edge. Basically, its a beat up, and not an issue in reality.

Cheers

[Gazza]

Why pay , if the tappet clearance is out-of-spec?
Mfact issue , not yours?

[bigpat]

Thanks for that moonlighter, nothing like first hand experience on these things....
I never realised the vast difference in economy between a mid range and large horsepower 4 stroke. But at 1.5-1.75 km/Ltr, it's still 75% better than he older 2 strokes.....