The Buying Process - Let's Build Something

[Shark Poker]

Following so many posts on disappointment with purchases, I thought it would be good to try and turn this type of thing into a positive.
Many of the complaints are related to businesses that are quite decent, but cannot afford to stop everything and bend over backwards and forwards every time a customer finds a problem. And the buyer - who we NEED - is pissed off.

There is more than enough experience, skill and modern buying style amongst the Ausfish Members to build a checklist of things that can avoid unexpected crap during or after the purchase.
I am not talking about just a mechanical check on the outboard.

Further, there is a small body of persons who would like to see a type of system of inspection established (similar to cars' roadworthy /safety certificate) for boats.
Such a process would hopefully reduce poor standard imported boats, but could certainly make it harder to register your 10-20yr old plus craft as well.
And it would mean us dealing more with QLD Transport - who wants that?

A possible inspection/condition law is not the purpose of this post. It is just another a reason why a buyer checklist is a better solution.

May I further ask, that any members who contribute to this offer a positive solution than a negative experience?

Personally, I would think that here on Ausfish we develop a list of items to check on a BMT (boat motor trailer) package, which includes not only a condition check, but how each item may be able to be repaired and replaced and the cost plus availability in the event of a problem.

So maybe it could go something like this:
Item - Actual condition - Repair Cost - Repairer availability - Replacement price and availability

I work with glass, and almost every week owners of imported craft contact us trying to replace broken curved glass. In most cases it can NOT be replaced, but they never checked on that, only other parts of the pkg such as the hours on the motor.

They had no idea to check on that, and it is only one example. Who among us can help?
Pauly

[oldie]

Im definitely keen to come up with some stuff for this thread but there is so much different expectation from so may different people its a bit of a vicious circle, say the dealers idea of acceptable may not be the same level as the buyer, same goes for private buying one mans pride and joy which he thinks is the bees knees and in Very good condition may be another guys only good condition or needs work!?!

[oldie]

just changed my direction

[fisho8]

As of today I have bought my 3rd boat from the dealer mentioned in another thread to this day I have not been able to fault the service I have received from them. No dealer is perfect weather you are going to buy a car, boat, bike, jet ski etc....sometimes shit happens. Fair enough a mistake has been made and has been duly noted in this instance by management/owner. What I have found is information and honesty is the key when selling/buying anything from anyone...I do not work in sales but common sense dictates this. I work in the insurance industry as an assessor and that is one of the worst industries to be stereotyped in this day and age you can do everything possible to keep people happy but there are some people who just will not be no matter what you do. One thing I have found when shopping for boats is to stick to companies who have a robust infrastructure......yes you may pay more but it is worth it in the end. Over the last week or so I have agonised over the decision I have made to buy a boat made outside Australia the reason I have is they have been in business for the last 20 years and supply a plate boat which is good bang for your buck and also has had great reviews. I am a proud aussie and have always bought aussie made and will be sad to see my aussie made boat go. The cost to manufacture in this country has gotten ridiculous and from what I have seen on this forum from experiences people have had with some aussie brands has been well below par for the huge outlay they have paid in good faith to these manufacturers. As stated above I would like to see a system in place where all s/h/demo boats need a seaworthy certificate/safety certificate before they are resold to the public...(downside to this s/h boatsales may go up to accommodate this) The boating industry still has along way to go dealers run on paper thin margins and most of the time are left to pick up the pieces when things go pear shaped. However there is no excuse for poor back up service when things go wrong if you sell a product you need to back it and be confident in doing so and rectify any issue straight away with minimal fuss to the customer. There is no worse an experience as the purchase of a new piece of equipment going bad and no dealer needs the grief of this happening and this totally ruins the excitement of the experience of buying a new product . All I can say is if you are buying new pick a brad do your research ask plenty of questions talk to the owners of the product and get their feedback as salesman will fill your ears up with honey to get a deal over the line and this WILL keep them honest. Another thing is to ask the question on this forum to because you will be given a wealth of information and feedback from boat industry workers ETC and this has helped me make my decision on which way to go I have weighed up the odds as to spend the money on the boat I have got or go new. I have asked plenty of questions spoken with manufacturers and asked them various questions read the product booklets the dealers supply and so on. m another big this is "MAKE SURE YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE WATER TEST BEFORE YOU GO AHEAD WITH ANYTHING"....The water test I have asked for is an offshore water test before the deal is final as I have put this "IN THE CONTRACT" I have initially signed and will need to be happy with this before I take delivery of the boat. "DOING A FEW CIRCLES IN THE BAY WILL NOT CUT IT AS FAR AS i AM CONCERNED" If the dealer is not happy to meet your needs with this "WALK AWAY" In my case the dealer is happy to do this for me to make sure I am happy with the product I am buying. I do however have a bit of an advantage as my new boat will be used as the test boat in the Trailer Boat of the year competition 2013 and will be featured in their magazine so it will need to be spot on which is a bonus I guess I know but never the less if it does well then all of the boats sold by this manufacture will need to live up to the expectations expected by potential customers of this brand. and the dealers will need to reflect this as they are agents/reps of this brand and do have a name to maintain.

Cheers Mick.

[oldie]

sorry fatbuoy just saw you disliked that i edited my post i thought i'd just get shot down so deleted what i wrote

[Shark Poker]

Not at all I had a brief chance to read your post and I will support what you offer and back you up.

[oldie]

Ill have a go at breaking it down on things to check when buying a package

Biggest thing is age and what can be wrong with an older boat, if its Fibre glass its Floor,Transom and Stringers and if its alloy its Cracks, Electrolysis and welding issues, do we need to elaborate on what to check and how this can be rectified?

Anyway can figure the above out later i'm going to break it down:

Boat Check List: Structural condition, Electronics, wiring, lights, pumps, windscreen, under side gel coat cracks or leaks, fuel tank condition, switches, lights, hinges, hatches, carpet condition, gel coat condition, any obvious repairs why? professional repairs? Cracks in welds, paint bubble, condition of alloy,

Motor: Compression Test, Service History, Corrosions, Internal condition, pumping water? any alarms? run in forward, run in reverse, trim motor up and down, any leaks around hydraulics? steering cable condition? is it over the legal HP? 4 stroke oil colour?

Trailer: Spring condition, A frame Condition, Brake Condition, lights, tie down points, winch condition, tyre condition and pressure, bearings condition? Rollers and Bunks condition?

Hardest thing is its all price dependant isn't it cos if its a boat usually worth 20k in Very Good Condition but it has some issues in the above 3 categories and is advertised for 15k well then its acceptable isn't it as its been allowed for in the sale price or the negotiated price

not sure if I'm making sense but I think it is a hard one to build a complete list for what would result in the perfect transaction short of buying a brand new boat

[Shark Poker]

This is exactly the type of detail I was hoping to see contributed. Actually a lot more.
Oldie brings the often grey area of final negotiated price and is un/implied terms and conditions into the arena.
Thanks Oldie, I hope you don't mind some questions to expand on some of those details.

Mick, (Fisho8) I am re-reading your post.
If more members could contribute positively like these 2 gentlemen have, we could build something decent in no time at all.
Better than sitting on the fence and complaining hey?

[oldie]

All good mate I think its needed and glad you've started the thread

This is exactly the type of detail I was hoping to see contributed. Actually a lot more.
Oldie brings the often grey area of final negotiated price and is un/implied terms and conditions into the arena.
Thanks Oldie, I hope you don't mind some questions to expand on some of those details.

Mick, (Fisho8) I am re-reading your post.
If more members could contribute positively like these 2 gentlemen have, we could build something decent in no time at all.
Better than sitting on the fence and complaining hey?

[oldie]

Buying New everything should be as specified as per manufacturers specs and standard features, then you can start ticking off the optional extras that you chose when securing the package at the dealership (these should be written on sales agreement even down to what trailer plug you require), on arrival of the ordered boat you should expect/ request to be contacted and asked where exactly you would like your extras fitted i.e Sounder/GPS combos, switches, VHF radios and stereos, LED lighting, aerials, and where custom rego numbers are offered maybe even where they are located on the boat, I think having a good relationship and working together with the dealer instead of you on one side of court and them on other (Go Tomic) will result on a great purchase experience

[stevemid]

One way to check fuel tank condition, if second hand, would be to look for debris; syphon some petrol from the tanks into a beaker and check for colour, sediment, etc.

[Apollo]

I am about it as a PITA buyer. I research, check, get third party checks, ask more questions than you think possible and negotiate based on this. To this end, I rarely get caught out buying a dud both the seller and I know what to expect. Buying a boat out of the US is a very interesting process and so the leason I learnt from this can easily transferrable to buying a boat/equipment away from your local area.

The first thing I say is to research the boat/gear thoroughly before you start looking. It is just as important to know 'which' questions to ask, as to know 'what' answers you would want to get. This is usually the best way to flag if something is not right or you are being BS to when you go looking. Internet is your friend here with forum such as this, reviews, etc. Do a google search on 'motor XYZ problem or issue' or 'Boat ZYX review or problem' and see what comes up and what are the critical triggers. Things like XYZ had major issues pre 2006 but the re engineering in the 2007 and later models have fixed it with no complaints flowing on. Or 'ZYX had a gearbox issue that in most cases failed at around the 300hr mark. The factory supplied gearbox to replace that seems to have none of the same issues'. This sort of info is freely available if you spend the hours searching and you can build up quiet a profile of things to ask and look for and expected repair costs should it be incountered.

Once you start looking do not fear asking any question that you have determined needs asking from above, but don't lead the seller to give you the right answer. Ask. "so have you had any issues with the ZYX?" instead of 'have you replaced the gearbox on the ZYX yet?" Also ask for photos of the key points of interest from the angle you want it taken. If they won't do it, then why??? I found a lot of boats in the US that were looking ok in the advert photos, but when the photos were taken from my requests, the buy fell over pretty quickly due to previously non disclosed issues.

Get third party checks done -survey, structural, mechanical, electrical. Don't forget the trailer, all instruments, bilges, lights, motor, fuel, computer printouts from motor, service history (ring the servicer if possible), batteries, steering, accessories, ground tackle, safety gear and a water test. A few bucks spent here can avoid costs and dissappointment down the track.

Have fun.

[clone trooper]

Couldn't agree more with Apollo. the 3 R's ; research, research, research. That stands for everything you buy.