first rod problems

[George D]

Hi all,

I just finished my first rod build,,I am fairly happy with the outcome BUT...I picked a nice bright red thread for my underwrappings then a black to bind the guides. All was looking good until I put the opoxy on and it is now very dull and the red has darkened alot. Dont ask me what type of opoxy but I got it from Mossops. Not sure if this is a stupid question or not!! I may have put it on to thick, but I dont think so.
Any info or tips would be great. Sorry again if its a dumb question!!

[lrrrrr]

If you want to preserve the color of your threads, you will need to use color preserver (or CP as it's known in rod building circles). The darkening is an effect of the epoxy "wetting" the thread as it soaks in. Problem with CP is that it prevents epoxy seeping through effectively, so I would personally not use it on overbinds as it will reduce the strength of the binding.

I compensate for the darkening by starting with a lighter shade than what I want the finished product to look like.

[George D]

Thanks heaps for the tip mate,,I will go lighter on the next build,,This one was just a bit of a test run to iron out the bugs before I get stuck into a more expensive blank..

[wayno60]

Over a long period of time, and depending how much use/out in the sun the rod gets, the blues and reds will fade without the CP. Im guessing it would be the same with any other dark colour. I hear where ya comming from Irrrrrrrrr but i always use it for that reason.

[BARICK]

George,

In my experience, there's no way around it e.g. I am in the process of finishing a fly rod where the moron coloured trim thread, which is CP thread still comes out darker. You're basically wetting the thread which makes it go darker.
Colour compensating as Irrrrr suggests is probably your best bet, which will take a little experimenting.

[Micadogs]

You can use metallic thread and it wont change colour for the underwraps. Also, if you epxoy has turned it "dull", then you have some issues. Epoxy should turn it glossy and give it depth.

There are heaps of threads on epoxy (or problems with epoxy) on this website and the web to assist.

Regards Adam

[Owen]

Problem with CP is that it prevents epoxy seeping through effectively, so I would personally not use it on overbinds as it will reduce the strength of the binding.

I hear this from time to time & I suppose there is a theoretical possibility of there being a difference.
I use CP on pretty much everything as do a lot of builders I know.
Some of them regularly build rods for bluefin tuna etc and none have guide failures.
To me that says "myth busted", but like everything in rod building, whatever makes you feel like you have built a better rod, has for you at least helped build a better rod.

[finga]

This seems to draw me to a question.
What is the purpose of using epoxy?

Personally I feel the job of the epoxy is purely sealing/waterproofing/protective/decorative and the strength of the bind is purely in the thread.
Rods used to work just fine in the days before epoxy and all they had was some varnish on the threads. The threads rotted and let go...not break.
Then the old Sid Erskine (I think it was) epoxy came out and the same deal as the varnish BUT the finished result looked 'smoother'
Then modern day epoxies with their UV protective 'additives' came along which seems to protect the thread a lot better against rot.
But then you get a smidge of movement in the guide/epoxy join (no matter how flexible the epoxy claims to be) and some water gets in and it's all shot to hell anyways. Water gets in and rust, and/or staining, starts to happen.
That's why most guide binding fail (functionality/looks) isn't it??
Some insulation tape or masking tape will hold the guides on just fine.......but not for very long.

I reckon epoxy was invented by some person with a really sick sense of humour.
It was made purely to frustrate people.

[BARICK]

Finga,

You're right about it being frustrating. I still haven't got it right. Sort of like golf, one micro millimetre to the left and you've screwed the shot...well almost.

[Mark Fisher]

George I have no doubt that you have used a Regular thread. If you don,t use CP with a reg thread they go darker and transparent. If you use CP they do darken a shade but not very much. If you use NCP, no colour preserver thread, you can get away without using CP. The thread will still darken slightly but will retain most of the original colour. Don,t believe most of the crap you hear about CP. As Owen said, it is just myth. I use it all the time and on game rods to and over polyester threads to retain their sparkle and lustre. I,ve even fished with a rod I hadn,t had time to epoxy and the CP glued the threads just fine and all held together. My tip, as a learner you need to do you research and ask as many questions as you need to about threads, CP and epoxy. Everyone has a different technique and different advice.

[RFARREN]

i use cp on every rod i wrap and i have never had a problem, even 60 - unlimited chair rods
the only problem i have encountered with some cp is some black binding can go slightly milky if you apply too much
i don't believe there is any difference to the overall strength of the wrap with cp
like mark said mate experiment and find what works for you
oh and for the record i use u40 color lock........ i would be interested to hear what the other ppl on here use
i have tried cason's crystal clear but i think u40 is better
the original jack erskins (15+ years ago) was the best i have seen but they changed it (i think is the same as U40 now )

[Mark Fisher]

Chromaseal by a long shot! Black thread stays black!

[lrrrrr]

I hear this from time to time & I suppose there is a theoretical possibility of there being a difference.
I use CP on pretty much everything as do a lot of builders I know.
Some of them regularly build rods for bluefin tuna etc and none have guide failures.
To me that says "myth busted", but like everything in rod building, whatever makes you feel like you have built a better rod, has for you at least helped build a better rod.

I'll have to start using the stuff then. You always hear about guides coming loose, I guess the CP is just an easy scapegoat for a lousy epoxy/wrap job.