Adding fuel sensor info 2 stroke carby

[WalrusLike]

One silly issue I always have is I can't fill the tank without spilling fuel everywhere. The tank hose spits back no matter what I do.

Just out of interest.... Does anyone know if underfloor stainless tanks generally have internal baffles? Just wondering. Not related to fuel spitting issue.

[honda900]

walruslike,

firstly, you dont piggy back the fuel sensor, the one in the tank remains where it is and continues to work in parrallel. Your EP10/60 will go in line, so after your fuel filter, before the engine. once installed you will be able to connect it to the backbone nmea network, then configure head unit to display the data.

Yes you need an nmea starter kit, this should give you bus power, a couple of t connectors terminators and backbone cable.

Regards
HOnda.

[WalrusLike]

Done a ton of reading now but still not sure of the waters.

The Garmin sensor is dearer but it has a lead to the tank level sensor so it's able to actually know when the tank is full or empty. (I have questions below)

It's not rated as low a flow rate as the Lowrance but it does actually sense lower it just not as reliably accurate at lowest flows. I don't think that is as significant as I initially thought.

The thing I haven't found out yet after reading the product manuals and the various threads is how do the two inputs reconcile and what is the use of having a level input?

So for instance if the tank is filled without the 'fill tank' action taken by user does the display show a empty tank or a full one? If it shows empty then what is the use of the level input?

Does anyone have the Garmin sensor connected to both the fuel line and their tank sensor?

[Stewey]

When i installed my new fuel tank I went through the process of investigating the addition of a fuel level sensor to attach to my GFS10. I was advised to not bother due to the possible inaccuracy of the sensors, and the level of information provided through the GFS10. Consequently I did not go down this path. As long as you remember to use the "fill tank", or "add fuel to tank" options on your plotter, I have found no issued with the levels provided just by the GFS10.

As I have stated previously, when calibrated, this sensor is fairly accurate (+/_ less than 1 ltre).

If it was me i would not be connecting the fuel level sensor to the GFS10. As you allready have a fuel level guage, this would give you 2 seperate points of reference. Theoretically the comparison between the two would be more accurate.

regards

Stewey

[WalrusLike]

Yeah I am inclined to agree with your thinking Stewey. And thanks for your inputs... They are most helpful.

There is a faint doubt in my mind however because it seems weird to even design it to have the level sensor unless it has some useful function.

The designers would have known how unreliable a long thin tanks level sensor is. So why did they add the capacity to connect to one?

It's seems weird to me so I am faintly wondering if it isn't doing something like learning the levels so it can later on reset fuel to full automatically etc.

Probably a nonsense that's too good to be true. But it is kinda possible. In the old days folks used to notch their tank gauges and from lots of fills learn exactly how much each fine notch meant in terms of fuel gone. If done over a period of time it can be fairly accurate.

The device could potentially do the same.... Don't think it's likely but it is possible.

Anyone able to confirm or deny?

[WalrusLike]

Just reviving my old question.... Has anyone installed the Garmin GFS10 fuel sensor and connected it to nmea2000 and ALSO to their fuel tank sensor?

I am trying to work out if it's able to do any cunning automatically sense a refueling type thing.

[trueblue]

I did the same on a 130 yammy 2 stroke hooking up a Lowrance ep60 to an HDS7

dunno how the Garmin works, but with the Lowrance and the EP60 I can look at fuel flow on either the EP60 or the the GPS head unit, but the best thing is the fuel remaining display on the gps. after calibration, it tells you from the fuel flow measurements how much fuel is left in the tank. brilliant. no need for a tank gauge (which is never accurate anyway)

[WalrusLike]

Thanks .... I look forward to that. Can you say what your fuel usage at idle is?

I have read the Garmin is no good once flow goes down to 7 liters per hour but I don't know if that's a issue or not.

I have no idea if that is more or less than my idling consumption. I suppose in truth if it's just 7 liters per hour it doesn't matter too much.

I am just thinking about when trolling.

[trueblue]

the lowrance EP 60 reads fuel flow accurately at about 4.5 litres / hour at idle on my 130 2 stroke. probably reads accurately lower than that as well.

trolling at 5 to 6.5 knots varies from 12 l/hr up to 19 l/hr, makes a hell of a difference to find the sweet spot with speed and engine trim and tabs. can usually get it to run at 13 or 14.

it would obviously be better trolling with a 4 stroke, but having a fuel flow meter makes it ok in that I won't run out of fuel and don't have to keep extra jerry cans for 'just in case' fuel reserve.

[WalrusLike]

Thanks Trueblue... That's a great help.

I had read that the Lwrance is better at low rates. But I had no idea of idle and trolling usage. That's brilliant. Thanks heaps.

[WalrusLike]

Whereabouts do you blokes in Brisbane get your NMEA stuff?

I need a Garmin GFS10 sensor, NMEA backbone and two terminators, one data dropper for plotter, and at least two T pieces.

I am not sure if I need to connect the backbone to power.... Not sure if that is a requirement for NMEA to work or if it's just incase you want to supply power that way....

If so I need another T and a power cable dropper.

Whitworths have to order in... Same for others I've tried. Anyone got a one stop, in stock shop?

Or do you all order online?

[Moonlighter]

Hi Walrus

Have come in a bit late on this thread, but hope i can throw some light on these mysterious NMEA 2000 networks for you!

Think of the "network" as if its the phone line that runs throughout your house. The line runs thru the walls and every now and then, thereis a plug that you can connect things to - such as a phone, an internet modem, etc. Right?!

As you know, if someone at one end of the house is on the phone and you pick up a handpiece at the other end of the house, you can join in the call.

The nmea backbone is the phone line. The T pieces are the plugs. The network needs power to operate. Thats why, in its most basic form, a "network" can just be a T piece connected to a power supply, with a terminating resistor on the open ends of the T piece. It will do nothing like that, it is just "there"! Same as the phone line with no phones plugged into it, its live but does nothing.

Rule # 1: never have any T pieces with an open end. They must be connected to a device, or direct to another T piece, or to a connector cable that goes into the side of another T piece. When youve got your whole network up and ready, the T pieces at each end will have one open end left, and you plug those holes by putting a terminating resistor on. That finishes off the network.

You connect "devices" into the network by plugging them into a T piece. Here's rule # 2.

You only ever connect a device into the leg part of the T piece, never to the ends of the top bit.

So yes, to get it all happening in your boat, you will need some bits and pieces. The cheapest way to get the bits you need is to buy a NMEA starter kit. Much cheaper than buying them separately.

It will include a power node, some short cables (ideal to connect things, i mean devices, to the network), and a couple of T pieces and usually 1 longer cable as well. It actually doesnt matter whether you buy a Lowrance starter kit or Garmin, as the plugs are all the same and are interchangeable, and you can mix them too.

The NMEA 2000 is the name for the data protocol that devices are built to meet by the various manufacturers. So, for example, provided they are all NMEA2000 certified, a Lowrance GPs antenna can talk to a Garmin plotter. And a garmin gps can accept and display data from a Lowrance fuel flow meter. And so on.

When it comes to fuel monitoring, on a 2 stroke like ours that doesnt send nmea2000 data out, the best choice will be a NMEA2K fuel FLOW gauge. Garmin and Lowrance both make them. Either of these will display data on your Garmin GpS. I know that the Lowrance version gets its power from the network, so you dont need to wire it to separate powerr supply.

Once connected and the network power is turned on, you will have to open the NMEA2000 network menu on the Garmin and it should then list the fuel sensor. You then set up the boat by telling it the fuel tank capacity and then you are away. Every time you add fuel to the ank you will have to fire u the Garmin and go to the fuel menu and tell it one of 2 things: 1. That you have filled the tank to full; or 2. You have partially filled the tank and you will then input the actual litres of fuel added.

This way, the Garmin always knows how much fuel there is left in the tank.

Cheers

ML

[WalrusLike]

Thank you so very much for the work and knowledge you put into your post. Most helpful.

I lean towards the Garmin because it also has a connector to the analog level sensor on the tank. Not necessary but nice to have. I assume it will co-exist piggy backed on to the connector points of the existing level sensor without interfering with the other level gauge (part of the Yamaha gauges)

It's good to know the droppers can be independent of brand. Is it ok to have:
Stern to binnacle....

Terminator, t piece with power dropper to battery, t piece with dropper to fuel sensor, backbone, t piece to plotter, Terminator. ?

In other words.... Can t pieces be ganged at end of backbone?

And does anybody know a place that has all this stuff in stock? Thanks fellas.

[WalrusLike]

[deleted stupid double post]

[Swanie1975]

k-e-o-g-h-s down here on the gold coast have all that stuff in stock - nmea starter kit and add-ons www.k-e-o-g-h-s-m-a-r-i-n-e.com.au (without the spaces)

cheers ryan