Reinforcing the joint on a butt joint rod

[benno_r]

Going to be making a start soon on a popping rod for big GT's on our yearly Exmouth trip. I know those big brutes are going to punish the life out of the rod, so I want to make sure everything is properly made and reinforced to ensure I don't suffer any unnecessary breakage.

I am happy with the guides, and equipment I want to use, but one thing has been bugging me. The rod is a two-piece, and has the "butt joint" style connection.

Should I reinforce the female side (the handle) of this rod, and what should I use. I didn't want to uses anything too bulky, as the foregrip will need to glue over it. I have searched everywhere, I can't find a good solution.

Cheers,
Ben

[chris69]

Hi there Benno,i would think that its not realy nessesary to do so as its the style of the rod and should be reinforced at this point, but if you fell that you want to do this look for some 3K carbon tow it just carbon thread [flat] or buy some 3kcarbon fiber tape only needs to be light only need a mt and pull a thread from it and just wrap it on and wrap some rod thread on the ends to hold it , but lightly sand it first were you wont to put it, hpoe this helps cheers Chris.

[trout head]

What blank is it , you can put a winding check at the top of the foregrip .

[benno_r]

A couple of good ideas there, I thought maybe a stainless sleeve too. I read a bit about the carbon tow, and they recommended kevlar tow for those kind of things because the thread breaks less. So maybe a kevlar wrap might be the go.

Blank is a Black Hole Cap Cod Special 80N.

Cheers,
Ben

[sid_fishes]

i would not worry about it.or do as ian said use a winding check
ian

[Stuart]

I don’t want to sound like I’m insulting any ones intelligence here but I wouldn’t be relying on a winding check for any support of a join. The weak point of any join believe it or not is where the top of the male section stops inside the blank. I have been down this road with my own blanks years ago and any join as a whole must be reinforced. My own popper tossing blanks I designed years ago where from 50lb through to 130lb and measured drag settings of up to 38kg for the 130lb and 21kg on the 50lb.Now while some of these are 1pc I also do them as a two piece. The female section needs plenty of reinforcing and in order to keep the bulk down a high modulus carbon wrapped transversely around the blank offers immense strength.

The problem with a female “what problems don’t they have” join is the male section can actually burst through the wall of the female section while the female section can crush the male section. So the way around this is to bulk the male section and to reinforce the female join. In having said all that the action of the rod will or should dictate just how much reinforcing is needed. My blanks are a fast action so that multiplies the stress I the join by a factor of the length times the drag used. If your rod is a slow parabolic action then the need for heaps of reinforcing is decreased because the again the load is shared equally through the entire rod. Parabolic rods are much less efficient at leveraging a fish as apposed to that of a fast action where you can gain more line per pump of the rod. Now this may sound all good and the manufacturers must know what they are doing right? Wrong. Just because a rod is built by some brand name means bugger all. I would recommend you grab some black thread and do a bind stopping around 1 inch above where the top of the male section stops. I have repaired plenty of brand name popper tossing rods and all have been in the join. Best thing to do is put up a photo. Sorry for rambling on yet again.

Stu

[trout head]

Wow , excelent advice , I have been been doing the thread as you say on the male part , now I have noticed that the CTS popping blanks have a hell of a lot thicker section on the female [ butt end ] than other blanks , is this because of what you are saying , it all makes sense , and mate please keep rambling on .

Ian

[Stuart]

Ian,

Dont you mean thread on the female section? The female join slides over the top of the male section. Joins in anything will always remain a week point no matter how strong you make it. One single bind will stop splitting of the blank wall but it will also allow the blank wall to distort with out restriction such as a alloy or stainless winding check. In fact an old demo I showed a few guys years ago was to drop a washer down a blank so it would stop around half way. With very little effort the blank would snap clean in half, no fragments at all. This shows what happens to a blank when loaded and also when restricted from changing shape.

Stu

[trout head]

Ok Stu, understand the washer bit , so what we have is a progression from the male to female , so in laymen terms the breaking point is there , so if looking at a blank we would want a nice solid female , with a good hard male join , I just checked the Spinal blank I have against the CTS and there is a big differance in the both female and male joins, as in thickness so I would think the CTS would be a better design ? so in the fine walled joins it is better to build both up , now with the thread build it up under the grip on the female , and 1/2 in above the join on the male ?

[Stuart]

I dont mind a solid female, I enjoy them even more with a hard male end. You cant build up a male end of the a join only becuase both ends need to taper lock. If there is any play at all between the two sections when together then 2 or 3 things can happen. 1 when casting a popper out you may loose the tip section, yes its happened plenty of times. 2 if there is any play in the join you can almost rest assured it will brake when loaded up with heavy drag. 3 you will wear the join out with constant rubbing between the 2 surfaces.

Stu

[benno_r]

OK, I got some photos.

The male female join is approximately 100mm. So I should bind some thread down the top of the handle at least 125mm from the end. C size be OK?

I did see some Kevlar thread used in fly tying, would that be suitable? Or would it make the joint overly stiff? I understand it has to give a little, to distribute the load of the join.

Cheers,
Ben

Male and female:


Female:


Male:

[Stuart]

I tell you what will look great is gunsmoke reg thread with out the use of any sealer. If you do that and then coat the bind the thread will disapear leaving the pattern under it, will look cool. C thread will be ok but A would be my first choice. C thread is stronger but you will simply get more A thread packed in to a given distance making the section stronger and more stream line. If you only have C then thats fine, just make sure when you bind you should back pack or push the thread back down on itself every quarter or half inch. This will makes it look much neater and gives the section more support because you simply have more thread. Is it just me or is the wall thickness on the female section very uneven. Can you check that out mate because that can be a very week point. It appears to me in the pic that the top is much thicker than the bottom, could be the angle of a photo thing. I should do a CD or write a friggen book on all this crap, ah that costs money.

Stu

[benno_r]

Stu,

It must just be the light - I did trow the verniers over it and it is even all around. I "think" I will bringing the grip all the way up to the joint. Going to start a bit of an ergonomic assessment tonight on where the reel seat and grips will be going, and that will determine the layout, and finishing arrangement of the joint. The rest of the fun will start tonight too - if I can find my Matagi bling book! lol

Thanks all!
Ben

[Stuart]

When working out the position of the reel seat on popper tossing blank make sure you allow for the reel seat when working the popper. Dont forget that working a blooper popper can strecth the arms a fair bit time after time throw after throw. Your reel seat position may feel great in a fighting stance but that doesnt always equate to an optimal popper working position. You may have to compromise between the two position. Something to keep in mind and something most dont consider is you will spend more time casting than you will fighting.

Stu

[Daintreeboy]

I dont mind a solid female, I enjoy them even more with a hard male end. You cant build up a male end of the a join only becuase both ends need to taper lock. If there is any play at all between the two sections when together then 2 or 3 things can happen. 1 when casting a popper out you may loose the tip section, yes its happened plenty of times. 2 if there is any play in the join you can almost rest assured it will brake when loaded up with heavy drag. 3 you will wear the join out with constant rubbing between the 2 surfaces.

Stu

Stu mate that is one of the funniest posts I've seen for a while!!